Topic: 1000cc Injectors, Car seems to run rich but AFR is super high w/VIDEO (Read 21070 times)

imburne · « **on:** December 31, 2011, 12:28:03 AM »

Car was running fine before..

RC 1000cc Injectors
Resistor Box

I started up the car after I wired in the resistor box and injectors and the second I would step on the throttle it would want to stumble and die. I removed the stock o2 in place of the wideband and directed it to neptune to read out.

The software that comes with it, Logworks3 also shows a very high afr. I have not let the car warm up as now it wants to die quickly possibly from no stock o2?

Anyhow I am pretty sure I wired in the wideband okay but these high readings may show different.. Possibly I did not wire the resistor box correctly? Kind of stumped right now so any help would be great!

http://youtu.be/f_1IC2Kc-9k

Tim · « **Reply #1 on:** December 31, 2011, 01:05:48 AM »

Listen to your engine not an instrument that lies.
Your engine is misfiring and each one sends a cylinder full of unburned oxygen to the wideband, which in turn reads lean.

ratcityrex · « **Reply #2 on:** December 31, 2011, 01:18:34 AM »

Truth, rich misfire reads lean. Try to lean it out some.

imburne · « **Reply #3 on:** December 31, 2011, 01:27:24 AM »

Misfire meaning I have a dead injector plug or my resistor box wiring is no good? The engine sounds okay at first start but then starts the stumbling. I would love to start tinkering with the maps but have a feeling something is wrong as the readings were so far off. Can I just try to lean it out and see if the readings lower or do you guys see another issue?

Tim · « **Reply #4 on:** December 31, 2011, 01:33:01 AM »

It could be any number of things. Hardware or tune, rich or lean a misfire will read the same. Check over everything then play with tune.

HiProfile · « **Reply #5 on:** December 31, 2011, 01:55:11 AM »

Stick your nose in the exhaust pipe. Smell like gas or burns your eyes? TOo rich. Otherwise it's too lean. You can also get info from your plugs, but to a lesser extent for idle.

You remembered the battery offset table, right? You understand low-impedance RC1000's need to idle around 13:1? That you may have to alter tip-in enrichment?

If you want something that doesn't suck, I have some 780cc Siemens Dekas that will drop right in and will make it run no matter who's working the lappy. They'll also handle high fuel pressures.

imburne · « **Reply #6 on:** December 31, 2011, 03:05:50 AM »

Thanks for that help guys.

At first I thought it was possible I had a hole somewhere in the downpipe I made. I tried to re-weld it at the o2 bung to make sure any possible pinholes were covered.

The injectors I have wired multiple times for resistor box, then removed before final testing, and wired stock back to have them working fine. Now back to the resistor box which I wired directly from the injector wires following a pretty simple diagram. I will try to test the plugs for voltage and impedance.

I remembered the battery offset table and neptune altered tip in and cranking trim to -76 automatically. Before when I had the stock o2 sensor wired in the car would idle and not die. I even played with the gas to rev it up slightly but it died shortly after.

I will check out what you guys are talking about tonight on the car

chris · « **Reply #7 on:** December 31, 2011, 03:28:12 PM »

If the car smeels like gas it's not running lean.

imburne · « **Reply #8 on:** December 31, 2011, 03:59:29 PM »

Ok so I think I might have found an issue. I checked the voltage on the injector clips and the 4th injector clip had no volts. Others had about 10. Something volts..

So I am rewiring again to recheck. This has to be the misfire Tim referred to.

chris · « **Reply #9 on:** December 31, 2011, 05:42:15 PM »

pull your plugs and let them air out also

imburne · « **Reply #10 on:** December 31, 2011, 06:11:16 PM »

Alright so I rewired the resistor box and the exact same injector clip is still showing no voltage. The others get about 10.8 volts. Think there is sOmething with the resistor box? Or that particular injector plug? I am going to have it directly touch the wire instead of the injector clip to see if the clip is screwed up. Will air out the plugs as well

92CXyD · « **Reply #11 on:** December 31, 2011, 06:31:05 PM »

Check injector wire continuity from ecu to that plug.

imburne · « **Reply #12 on:** December 31, 2011, 08:26:15 PM »

Quote from: 92CXyD on December 31, 2011, 06:31:05 PM

Check injector wire continuity from ecu to that plug.

Did that and found it broken at the cdm adapter harness, thanks. So I directly connected it to each other and got 10.8 volts like the rest of the clips. I tried to measure resistance and could not on the plugs. I did on the injectors themselves and read 3ohms

So I start it up again and its the same issue but runs slightly better for a few seconds than starts the crapping out sound. Possible misfire still?

Update video just taken a few minutes ago
Injector clip fixed still running lean

slappynuts · « **Reply #13 on:** December 31, 2011, 09:57:16 PM »

What is your fuel pressure doing?

imburne · « **Reply #14 on:** December 31, 2011, 10:16:50 PM »

Quote from: slappynuts on December 31, 2011, 09:57:16 PM

What is your fuel pressure doing?

Not sure but I will look at the fuel pressure gauge next time I start up the car. I just picked up inline resistors to get rid of the resistor box and eliminate that as a variable if I need.

imburne · « **Reply #15 on:** January 01, 2012, 02:45:06 AM »

So I wired for inline 10ohm 10watt resistors and it's really rough. It sounds like possibly not firing right. Checked all clips for voltage and they all have 10.8 volts.

Stumped and I can't really check the FPR gauge as the car won't idle for long

Here's the plugs.. They are not the ones I will be using for boost. I left these in anticipating flooding the shit out of it at first. Really though right now since I switched the resistors it really sounds like shit

ratcityrex · « **Reply #16 on:** January 01, 2012, 02:53:56 AM »

Stick your nose in the tail pipe, does it smell like unburnt fuel? Did u check to see if all your plugs are wet with fuel? Did u try to pull some fuel out of the map to see if it riches up?

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #17 on:** January 01, 2012, 03:43:19 AM »

I can't tell shit from the videos. All I know is cranking, and the few seconds after, is the richest idle event. As post start fuel tapers off idle becomes leaner and if you stall... hrmph.

Ctrl+J, add 10% fuel to your idle region. What happens to AFR and idle quality? If it changes is it the change you wanted? If not, undo and change in the other direction. This is not hard, it's pretty basic shit, just keep hitting the problem with your mental hammer.

ratcityrex · « **Reply #18 on:** January 01, 2012, 03:49:26 AM »

Fuck it, just lean your whole map out 15% and see what happens. Your not gona hurt shit T idle, and like said you can change it back.

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #19 on:** January 01, 2012, 04:42:27 AM »

Start then stall seconds later = lean, IMO

PhilStubbs · « **Reply #20 on:** January 01, 2012, 08:06:35 AM »

I don't get why you aren't playing with the map. No EMS ever accurately calculates injector changes. You always have to work with it. Add 10-15% fuel. If its the same or worse ctrl Z and then subtract 10-15% fuel. Keep doing which ever one makes it run properly.

HiProfile · « **Reply #21 on:** January 01, 2012, 01:50:32 PM »

The clips' yellow wires go to the resistor, then to switched +12vdc. The other wire goes to the ECU's injector drivers, which only show voltage when the injector is being activated. At idle that's ~8 times per second for 2 milliseconds or less.

Either get a noid light, or make your own. Get a red LED, hook it to a ~500ohm resistor. Put LED or noid light into each injector clip (leave clips OFF all injectors). Disable injector test. Set idle duty cycle to 50%. Have someone crank the engine while you watch to see if each LED shows light. If not, swap their wires in the clip. Try each clip.

If they get power, either an injector is junk (it happens), it is too rich/lean, or you are having ignition probs. Since it works with other injectors, it

The best advice I have is to check the wiring with obd0 PGMFI injectors, the low-z injectors that need a resistor box. They should work. If they don't, it's wiring or fuel map problems.

imburne · « **Reply #22 on:** January 01, 2012, 02:36:45 PM »

Thanks guys I did the 10% increase and it idled fine and even allowed me to rev it up without stalling. I noticed when I do that the AFR goes to 14-12 volts so those readings seem okay I think but the AFR is still really lean at idle so I will play with it sOme more to get it to 14 volts..

Will post up more results here on the issue and fixing it. Very grateful for all the help as this is teaching me the ropes

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #23 on:** January 01, 2012, 04:25:38 PM »

FOURTEEN VOLTS AYY EFFF AARRRR!!!!!

Elijah, don't tune on that thing until you sober up from NYE, dog.

HiProfile · « **Reply #24 on:** January 01, 2012, 06:39:14 PM »

Mr Tunar Extrodinaire can tell you the larger low-z injectors usually like fairly rich AFR's to idle at. Make sure you find and input the battery voltage offsets (latency/deadtime) if you can. Makes a big difference too.

DSMR · « **Reply #25 on:** January 06, 2012, 01:41:10 AM »

Quote from: imburne on January 01, 2012, 02:45:06 AM

So I wired for inline 10ohm 10watt resistors and it's really rough. It sounds like possibly not firing right. Checked all clips for voltage and they all have 10.8 volts.

Something seemed fishy to me when you mentioned the resistors used.

I =V/R = 1.08A

P = VI = 11.664 Watts

imburne · « **Reply #26 on:** January 16, 2012, 12:20:23 AM »

The problem was initially resolved by adding 10% to the overall fuel trim, 15% made it much better and it looks like I will still have to add some fuel to idle alone as the rest of the map so far looks good while driving.

JACER63 · « **Reply #27 on:** January 17, 2012, 08:26:14 PM »

injector offset? did not see in your post what it was set at.

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Author Topic: 1000cc Injectors, Car seems to run rich but AFR is super high w/VIDEO (Read 21070 times)

chris

chris