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[99gsrturbo]

So i have been doing research on injectors. I was wondering if anyone has tuned with these injectors, and if so how easy was it to tune. Also i need something with around 2000cc was wondering what others have used.

[hatchbone]

I run fic 2150's they work great Ive had two 800hp+ builds running corn and they start and drive like stock 

[PhilStubbs]

Tuning is tuning. You won't notice much difference except the general rule is idle has to be a little rich to be smooth.

[runsfromdacops]

my car idles will into the 15.5ish afrs and loves it. i have id1ks in my integra and fic 1150s in my ctsv.  both are great although ids anrt a true 1000 or 2000 unless you run 100psi base fuel pressure   

[99gsrturbo]

At 100psi that seems wrong. By looking at there Flow charts they have it at 2000cc when its only 1 bar fuel pressure. I run 50 in my integra and the math has it at about 2200 since 2 bar is around 2300cc.

[92CXyD]

my car idles will into the 15.5ish afrs and loves it. i have id1ks in my integra and fic 1150s in my ctsv.  both are great although ids anrt a true 1000 or 2000 unless you run 100psi base fuel pressure

My shitty delphi 75# are running as 930cc inj . @ 50psig 

100psi si not good for the fuel pump when in boost, most HP walboros and the cdm equivalent do not like over 150psig with boost.

[Joseph Davis]

Rich idle for smooth idle is old barrel core or bad decap bullshit.

[HiProfile]

At 100psi that seems wrong. By looking at there Flow charts they have it at 2000cc when its only 1 bar fuel pressure. I run 50 in my integra and the math has it at about 2200 since 2 bar is around 2300cc.

I can't recall actual id2000 specs, but they test with gasoline so their numbers are ~10% higher than traditional injector flow numbers.


If you want to save some cash, I can sell you injectors that are exactly like ID1000's, and matched better. I've actually tested a set of new ID1000's, and they really don't match them at idle pulse widths that great. Full flow was indeed under +/- 1%, but dynamic pulsing showed a 3% variance.

Buy my injectors (new injectors for cheaper than the cheapest used ID1000's you'll find), spend the rest on a big fuel pump, and double your fuel pressure to 85psi. They'll be roughly 1300cc (mine flow 900-930cc), which should be enough for 700whp in a Honda.


Here's a vid of DANZ driving his built D15B2 using my 800cc injectors (similar to 900's but taller), he just put on a silent exhaust for this vid:

Turbo D15B2

So far he loves them. They weren't hand-picked beyond my normal matching process.

[99gsrturbo]

I'm running 1000cc now, and I'm running out of injector. Since i use E85. That's why i was looking for 2000's.

[turbohf]

run AEM then you can stage two sets of hiprofile injectors 

[HiProfile]

Or use an injector driver, wire it up so each ecu wire goes to an injector and the driver input. Or wire one set's possitive wires through a solid-state relay, and activate that relay just before it sees boost. With dual maps and a possitive-voltage input wire, you can let the relay's output also feed back to the ecu and change maps the instant the 2nd injectors come online.

Just don't let the ecu run 2 amps worth of injectors (2 sets) per channel for more than a minute. I recall seeing a test of peak&hold injectors on a Honda ecu where they overheated after 2-3 minutes or so at 100% duty @ 4 amps.

[99gsrturbo]

yeah i could do that, but i have money to blow so I'm going with the ID2000.

[DSMR]

Or use an injector driver, wire it up so each ecu wire goes to an injector and the driver input. Or wire one set's possitive wires through a solid-state relay, and activate that relay just before it sees boost. With dual maps and a possitive-voltage input wire, you can let the relay's output also feed back to the ecu and change maps the instant the 2nd injectors come online.

Just don't let the ecu run 2 amps worth of injectors (2 sets) per channel for more than a minute. I recall seeing a test of peak&hold injectors on a Honda ecu where they overheated after 2-3 minutes or so at 100% duty @ 4 amps.

BRMS uses 8 injectors with the stock ECU. Wonder what kind of magic they have going on.

[rawr]

Wire 2 injectors in series magic? So magical!

[Joseph Davis]

Or use an injector driver, wire it up so each ecu wire goes to an injector and the driver input. Or wire one set's possitive wires through a solid-state relay, and activate that relay just before it sees boost. With dual maps and a possitive-voltage input wire, you can let the relay's output also feed back to the ecu and change maps the instant the 2nd injectors come online.

Just don't let the ecu run 2 amps worth of injectors (2 sets) per channel for more than a minute. I recall seeing a test of peak&hold injectors on a Honda ecu where they overheated after 2-3 minutes or so at 100% duty @ 4 amps.

BRMS uses 8 injectors with the stock ECU. Wonder what kind of magic they have going on.

Probably how I told him to do it years ago.

[PhilStubbs]

The stock ecu can run 8 injectors? I don't need to, but that's interesting information.

[runsfromdacops]

The stock ecu can run 8 injectors? I don't need to, but that's interesting information.

it can on a tack car. the injector drives will burn up after not to long on the street.

[rawr]

Do not see why running them in series would burn up a driver with the correct resistance term. The amp load would increase but the supplied amps would not. Also if they do blow, replace with batch fire injector drivers ( from a Toyota ecu or something.)

Homos

[PhilStubbs]

I always thought about running 2 injector drivers to run 8 injectors if for some odd reason I needed 8. Can't get e85 here and I don't make 700whp. Blegh

[2slow]

Didn't the eldevrock Turbo kit for the d-series come with secondary injectors and an injector driver?

[92CXyD]

Didn't the eldevrock Turbo kit for the d-series come with secondary injectors and an injector driver?

It was an option and it is still in their online catalog. Could not find the instructions of how they want ya to hook the secondary injectors. 

[PhilStubbs]

I seem to remember something like that. Set to a certain duty cycle when boost came on.

[DSMR]

I can do the math on it and figure out currents and such. IIRC its a 2nd order ODE. I believe if you get the resistances correct, it would be fine with a stock ECU. 2 inductors in series add up just like 2 resistors in series (impedance vs resistance though).

What would be nice is to build a fancy injector box thingy like they sell for big money. But make yours for pennies and have it working flawlessly. Could be possible to idle 2 sets of low Z RC 1000's maybe? The idea would be to keep the voltage at a constant like maybe 14 or 15v no matter what the alternator was doing. That way your injector battery offset never changes.

2000cc (equiv.) low impedance injectors would be a beast to tune part throttle I would imagine. Especially trying to get the injectors to respond well at very low pulsewidths. Maybe good for race car but hard to get back and forth to the store. Please correct me if I am wrong on this and if you have made this work because I think it would be interesting.

One other thing I was toying with is maybe running smaller primary injectors (550ish or so) then backing them up with some water hoses like 1600cc's. This would piggy back on Hiprofile's idea of having additional circuitry. Build a control system that would input a "HEY MOTHER FUCKER WE NEED FUEL" signal to control the big boys. Use eCtune or Neptunes map switching to force the ECU into the nog tables and to also send the signal to change maps. I would imagine you could achieve great driveability while having more fuel than you know what to do with. It would be pretty complicated though and take some time to set up.       

[rawr]

^ would be a simple circuit too.

[Joseph Davis]

Replace QMx darlingtons with $0.59 worth of IGBTs, use eBay Crydom solid state relay for $2-4 to apply power to secondaries upon VTEC or secondary map activation.  Not difficult.

[HiProfile]

With map-changing feedback from the relay - even if the relay is slow, it will only change maps when the injectors get power. You could wire them so both sets get used or so it switches between the two sets.

I wish I could find the page again, but it showed heat vs time using peak/hold injectors w/o a resistor box. That draws 4 amps through the drivers. 2 amps (dual saturated) should last a very long time, if not indefinately, if you: vent the ecu, put a tiny fan above the injector drivers (nearest the "A" plug), and cement small heat sinks onto the trasistors.


One issue I was just thinking about was latencies. Using 8 of the same kind may not mess with latencies if the drivers can deliver the power, but using 2 different kinds will. If you used something like a Moates 2-Timer to switch the BIN on the chip completely, you could use whatever injectors you want, but would need an external source to change the maps (like a pressure switch or rpm box).

[The_Beave]

I'm going to stick my ignorant head in here for a moment:

Can you not run two ECUs in parallel?

[PhilStubbs]

I have wondered the same, but for running a v8. Share one set of sensors, run 2 distributors and 2 ecus

[Joseph Davis]

I have wondered the same, but for running a v8. Share one set of sensors, run 2 distributors and 2 ecus

One ECU, one Dave B Sparky COP board.

[PhilStubbs]

Did he ever finish that? I'd love to run my truck on a Honda ecu. I'd dump the 4 holed toiled in a heartbeat if I could do that. I have a big ford TB I could use with an elbow on my carb intake and 4 of hiprofile's injectors in the elbow.