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[turbob16hatch]

I'm slowly building my turbo setup for my civic daily, And i'm stuck with the intercooling side of the build.

The car is a ef 4 door and i'm keeping my p/s and a/c. as you know there is little to no room between the bumper and the condensor/radiator. I plan on pushing around 250-300 whp and want 100% reliability as i drive this 500+ miles a week.

Ok so lets start with the side mount, I have a 1g and a 2g side mount that i can modify to work in my car. If i remember the dsm's made 200-220 hp, correct? So i would be pushing the cooling capability of this option with my power goals.

Now the front mount, I like the idea of the front mount. No maintenence and better cooling then the side mount. but i'm limited to the thickness i can fit as i will not hack my mint bumber to fit an intercooler. So i'm thinking if i could find a thin but large diesel intercooler that i can hack up and make fit, it could work.

Now the meth inj. , I am very uneducated with this form of cooling. so mind my ingnorence. Now this would be the best as far as packaging goes as there is no intercooler core. Just the resivior tank in the trunk. but the downside is it's a machanical device that could fail, and the fact i would need to "tune" the correct flow,mixture, etc. correct?

Ok well lmk what you think.

Also does anyone know what model diesel trucks would be a good place to start to find a "thin" intercooler?

[onlyflash944]

Also does anyone know what model diesel trucks would be a good place to start to find a "thin" intercooler?

does it not matter the wide and high dimensions?

[turbob16hatch]

wide yes but high, you can chop them down to whatever hight you need.

but i think the old jrc ic were 30"ish long.

[Robb]

Er, I think you have some misconceptions about what an intercooler does first of all.  The size of the cooler does not determine how much power you can make.  Think about the intercooler as a heat sink.  It only absorbs thermal mass, doesnt really "make" more power, as you will never get your IAT's leaving the cooler below ambient unless your using something else as a medium like ice, but thats another deal altogether.

Your driving this turbo car 500+ miles a week?  Keep some tools with you at all times...

Meth injection alone isnt really a feasible option unless you dont mind filling the tank all the time.  

Side mounts are generally too small for the stock cars they came on, that being said my dad ran low 12's in his talon back in the day on the stock cooler/pipes, but didnt drive it everyday. Front mounts are SOOOO cheap nowadays (I remember when you couldnt find one for less than $900) there is no reason not to on a street car unless your just slapping something together for the hell of it.

[turbob16hatch]

Er, I think you have some misconceptions about what an intercooler does first of all.  The size of the cooler does not determine how much power you can make.  Think about the intercooler as a heat sink.  It only absorbs thermal mass, doesnt really "make" more power, as you will never get your IAT's leaving the cooler below ambient unless your using something else as a medium like ice, but thats another deal altogether.

i probably worded that very poorly. i was more or less saying the dsm intercoolers "support" 200-220hp so i was basing the intercoolers size as a guide to judge it's cooling ability. as i don't have cfm numbers. make more sense? 

Your driving this turbo car 500+ miles a week?  Keep some tools with you at all times...

yeah it is kinda alot, put on 10k-15k/yr on the car and it was turboed so i like to think i don't drive a dsm... but then again i do live in a small town so everything is within 25 miles.

Meth injection alone isnt really a feasible option unless you dont mind filling the tank all the time.

ok, good point. What about building a large 3-5 gallon tank, would this solve the refill issue?   also does anyone have a decent meth consumtion rate while DD'ing a car. i do not drive like a sissy, so i'm in boost alot.

Side mounts are generally too small for the stock cars they came on, that being said my dad ran low 12's in his talon back in the day on the stock cooler/pipes, but didnt drive it everyday. Front mounts are SOOOO cheap nowadays (I remember when you couldnt find one for less than $900) there is no reason not to on a street car unless your just slapping something together for the hell of it.

yeah, i hear you on the cost effectivness of intercoolers these days. even though i'm still young and have no idea on how it was pre 2000's 

[dvst8r]

Also does anyone know what model diesel trucks would be a good place to start to find a "thin" intercooler?

None, all of them that I can think of are at least 2.5" thick, maybe a volvo intercooler like something out of a 740 turbo.

[turbob16hatch]

None, all of them that I can think of are at least 2.5" thick, maybe a volvo intercooler like something out of a 740 turbo.

yeah i'm looking more in the 2" MAX. thickness

[patsmx5]

This sounds all too familiar. I basically made the same post as you just did a couple years ago about my miata. Daily driver, lots of miles, reliability first priority, 300whp goal, PS and AC a must, and I would NOT hack my bumper or it's support, or windage pieces.

I ended up doing a very non-traditional approach, moving the condenser forward some, the radiator back a bit, and sandwiching the IC between them. Ended up getting a 20x12x3 core IC there without modifying the bumper at all, and it's invisible to boot (sleeper all the way).

In your case, I would recommend a front mount IC for no reason other than it being a daily driver and you want 100% reliability. You COULD build a fancy smancy fail-safe water injection setup, but that would cost a lot and you'd still worry about it some. FMIC is 10x more set-it-and-forget-it. And it's better in some ways as you're removing heat from the charge.

[turbob16hatch]

yeah i was leaning toward the fmic. my big problem is finding the core dimensions i need.

[turbob16hatch]

Well, i just found a place called setrab thats makes a 23.75 x 5 x 1.75" $146  23.75 x 8 x 1.75" $198. so i might have somehting here. now i need to see what they flow, to see if there up to the task of 250-300 hp.

[dvst8r]

Not gonna lie, from what I see here, if an intercooler is this big of an obstacle for you, I don't see a turbo car that sees that kind of mileage as a feasible option for you.  

[patsmx5]

Just look at the surface area of the inlet. Like mine is 12x3 inlet, so 12 x 3 = 36 in^2, of which about 40% of that is open to air. You want to fit the largest one you can in terms of inlet surface area as this will directly correlate to it's efficiency as CFM's go up. Length will more or less effect it's efficiency from a thermal standpoint. A 10" might drop AIT's 60%,  where a 20" might do 90% or more. My 20x12x3 core IC, I never see AIT's climb more than 5* above ambient in boost.

[Lowerit]

just build the fuckin car.

[turbob16hatch]

Not gonna lie, from what I see here, if an intercooler is this big of an obstacle for you, I don't see a turbo car that sees that kind of mileage as a feasible option for you.  

Have you read any of my posts, this is not at all difficult for me. i'm trying to have a discussion. god sakes we get some tech about intercooler selection. oh and remember that turbo kit i sold for $300, and how it was running on my car all summer 

just build the fuckin car.

Yeah who wants to actually design and build a turbo system.    i don't slap things together as seen with my turbo manifolds. i think things out....

Just look at the surface area of the inlet. Like mine is 12x3 inlet, so 12 x 3 = 36 in^2, of which about 40% of that is open to air. You want to fit the largest one you can in terms of inlet surface area as this will directly correlate to it's efficiency as CFM's go up. Length will more or less effect it's efficiency from a thermal standpoint. A 10" might drop AIT's 60%,  where a 20" might do 90% or more. My 20x12x3 core IC, I never see AIT's climb more than 5* above ambient in boost.

it says it flows 160lbs /H/tube , it is the blue line with the dots, i "think"

http://www.setrabusa.com/pdf/CAC%20performance%20charts.pdf

[patsmx5]

Yeah, I don't look at the charts. They're too acomplicated. Like I said, biggest surface area inlet you can get. Putting a 2" thickness restriction sucks. I'd try to get a 3" core to fit myself. It took me like 8 hours to move the A/C condenser forward and the radiator back, all new brackets just like OEM bolted to the car, everything supported well, and everything hidden. If it must be 2" thick then fit the tallest you can.

[turbob16hatch]

i'm thinking the 23.75" x 8" x 1.75"

[Towdogg]

Go to the big truck junk yard.....

[turbob16hatch]

Go to the big truck junk yard.....

We used to have a huge diesel junk yard, with big steel crates with turbo's in them i would say 100-200 everywhere. but one day it was all gone. crazy as shit. so idk where it went or if i could even find diesel stuff in this town anymore.

[ApexSilver06MR]

turbo volvo?

[turbob16hatch]

thanks apex, i'm looking into them.

just need to find out how wide they are and if i can make one work.

[Corey]

air to water.

[turbob16hatch]

honestly A/W never even crossed my mind. i know it has worked on the crazy 900 hp nsx.

[Robb]

honestly A/W never even crossed my mind. i know it has worked on the crazy 900 hp nsx.

Pumps die too. My brother has been thru 4+ pumps in the last 2 years, driving his MR2 everyday.  Your still just moving heat from one medium to another.  A2W really only shows its true benifits when using ice, and otherwise if you physically have no room for a front mount.

[patsmx5]

honestly A/W never even crossed my mind. i know it has worked on the crazy 900 hp nsx.

You said you want reliability. Scratch A/W off the list then.

[bigwig]

If you can't figure out how to make a FMIC work on your setup, you either have no imagination or very little mechanical skills.  You should be able to shove an intercooler behind your bumper.  Paint it black and keep the grill and no one will know it is there.  It may have to be 2" thick, but who cares?  2" isn't as efficient as 3" but it still works.  SMICs are generally inefficient do to poor air flow.  Meth is not practical on a daily basis.  I'd only use meth in addition to an iintercooler or on a drag application.

[turbob16hatch]

If you can't figure out how to make a FMIC work on your setup, you either have no imagination or very little mechanical skills.  You should be able to shove an intercooler behind your bumper.  Paint it black and keep the grill and no one will know it is there.  It may have to be 2" thick, but who cares?  2" isn't as efficient as 3" but it still works.  SMICs are generally inefficient do to poor air flow.  Meth is not practical on a daily basis.  I'd only use meth in addition to an iintercooler or on a drag application.

besides the first part, my goal worked to get some people talking about crap on here. some of you still think i'm dumb yet my explained intentions. 

haha, trust me the skill is not the problem,  i was hopeing i would get some better insight into other forms of cooling. but everyone seems to just buy the biggest ebay core they can get for $89 shipped and slap it on there car.

doing that just doesn't do it for me, so i think out my options. but by all means keep doing the same old ghetto shit with absolutly no thought  into looks, performance, and all around package of the turbo kit.

rememeber it's not all about slapping shit on a car.

[patsmx5]

If you can't figure out how to make a FMIC work on your setup, you either have no imagination or very little mechanical skills.  You should be able to shove an intercooler behind your bumper.  Paint it black and keep the grill and no one will know it is there.  It may have to be 2" thick, but who cares?  2" isn't as efficient as 3" but it still works.  SMICs are generally inefficient do to poor air flow.  Meth is not practical on a daily basis.  I'd only use meth in addition to an iintercooler or on a drag application.

besides the first part, my goal worked to get some people talking about crap on here. some of you still think i'm dumb yet my explained intentions. 

haha, trust me the skill is not the problem,  i was hopeing i would get some better insight into other forms of cooling. but everyone seems to just buy the biggest ebay core they can get for $89 shipped and slap it on there car.

doing that just doesn't do it for me, so i think out my options. but by all means keep doing the same old ghetto shit with absolutly no thought  into looks, performance, and all around package of the turbo kit.

rememeber it's not all about slapping shit on a car.

No, around here it's pretty much all about slappiang shit on your car and making it go fast for little $$$.

But I hear ya. Still, with an IC bigger is better. You're overthinking it sort of. Read some books on heat exchangers if you want to know everything about them and make an informed decision. That's what I did.

[bigwig]

Stop taking offense to everything.  I'm speaking in general terms.

Intercoolers are intertcoolers 95% of the time.  The way I look at intercoolers is, 95% of the world is okay with a run of the mill intercooler.  5% of people have to actually think about design and efficiency.  I doubt you are in the 5%.  So really you just need an intercooler that fits.  Personally, I'd buy a cheaper intercooler and raise the pressure up 1 psi to get my desired results.  If I'm on a 11:1 comp engine, then I can't think like that.  A Vitara setup you can do stupid things and not have to worry about much.

[turbob16hatch]

trust me i'm not taking offence to everything, just giving some shit back to the guys who keep saying i'm dumb. but praise my turbo manifolds......  ;D

Well why change the way i design a turbo kit just because it isn't a race car. etc? to me i put the same amount of work and time into my daily as i would my s2000, doesn't matter to me.

yeah, it may seem i'm overthinking this. but i wasn't happy with my previous kits and would like to improve where i feel i have failed before.

[patsmx5]

trust me i'm not taking offence to everything, just giving some shit back to the guys who keep saying i'm dumb. but praise my turbo manifolds......  ;D

Well why change the way i design a turbo kit just because it isn't a race car. etc? to me i put the same amount of work and time into my daily as i would my s2000, doesn't matter to me.

yeah, it may seem i'm overthinking this. but i wasn't happy with my previous kits and would like to improve where i feel i have failed before.

Well read on heat exchangers for days then. Learn all about their efficiencies. And like it's already been said, they're common because of their simplicity and reliability. No pumps, no wires, nothing to maintain or check regularly. They're pretty much set and forget if you do it right. I put mine in last december and it's worked fine ever since. Haven't even snugged a coupler or anything. Just sits there and does its job like a champ, never see over 8*F over ambient, even in boost.