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[Lowerit]

It's almost time to get the GRM car tuned. Being in Canaduh there isn't many options. I may just have a street tune thrown on it while on the way down. I just want to know what I can expect.

I emailed a somewhat unknown. He goes through it all with me, then says $600 for 3 hrs.. HuH>?

Most places seem to charge $150-$250 an Hr .. is this normal?

I have a wideband and a Chip burner.. no Ostrich..Just wondering if I shouldn't just do it myself.

some of these kids tune 2 cars and build a website as mater tuners.. ArGh.

[chris]

100 bucks an hour on a dyno is the rate I have usually seen in califonia

[ratcityrex]

Well since you have a chip burner Im sure there is a few people on here that could get you a pretty good base map COUGH(jd leed ect) that would get you close enough to drive it around. Then go get it tuned by JD on your drive down. Ive seen most reasonable tuners in the area im in charge 300-400 street tune and an hour of dyno time.

[Lowerit]

I have the wideband and the burner. Messing with fuel doesn't scare me, I don't wanna touch timing...  I guess I should just look for a vitara basemap with a small turbo and go from there.

[ratcityrex]

Play it safe then and just pull 1* per lb. It should be way more than enough. Are you running pump or race fuel mix?

[Joseph Davis]

$500 flat for unlimited dyno time, I can knock off up to half that figure based on what you have by way of trade.

If Goforth's dyno is here by then, I can promise you it will be less.

Play it safe then and just pull 1* per lb. It should be way more than enough.

Bad idea if you have a D-series and want any power.

[Lowerit]

What do you want JD? / Need?

[Joseph Davis]

I'm a geek, got any electronics/test gear?  Newer computer shit?  86-89 Integra transmissions or ZC halfshafts?  Vitaras, D16Z6/Y8 aftermarket cams or springs, stuff and things? 

[deeznutts]

round here in texas they all charge around 650 and up but there all pretty well known tuners t1, alamo, secrite services, redline ect...

[Joseph Davis]

I thought T1 charged $500 for Honda tunes?  He's the only one whose prices I checked before I decided what mine were.

[deeznutts]

the last time i used t1 was years ago on my b16 hatch and i paid and dont be to hard on me 650$ but he did a damn good job and this was also when he first opened his shop after leaving jotech..

[Joseph Davis]

the last time i used t1 was years ago on my b16 hatch and i paid and dont be to hard on me 650$ but he did a damn good job

That's what I expected to hear, he's a pretty crafty dude.  I can't say I deal with him a lot but he's gone out of his way to help me and I appreciate that a lot.  Good people.

[ratcityrex]

Play it safe then and just pull 1* per lb. It should be way more than enough.

Bad idea if you have a D-series and want any power.

-1* per lb = no power = safe

lol
 

[Joseph Davis]

Play it safe then and just pull 1* per lb. It should be way more than enough.

Bad idea if you have a D-series and want any power.

-1* per lb = no power = safe

lol
 

Uh, no.  Safe is not a bad idea, a bad idea is a bad idea.  I meant it a complete other way.



Here, pictoral proof.  Stock D16Z6 final timing is 28 degrees. 


305 whp at 12 psi mutant D16Z6, probably running ~9 degrees timing.  That's 1.6 deg/psi.





Above average 240 whp @ 10 psi Z6 with ram horn, etc. 12-12.5 degrees timing.  That's 1.55 deg/psi





Fresh D16Y8 with an Edelbrock kit, 8-9 psi IIRC.  It might have been 10 psi?  It made 215 whp, nothing special, I remember expecting more.  Let's call it 10 psi, 14.5 degrees final timing.  That makes 1.35 deg/psi.





D16Z6 Vitara motor, 7.5:1 CR, DSM T25.  The dictionary definition of friendly and laughs at detonation.  Spikes to 20+, tapers to 12-14 psi because internal gates are for Volkswagens.  195 whp 210 wtq tuned last year, set FTOD at the auto-x last month.  Call it 13 degrees final timing, that makes 1.1-1.25 deg/psi retard however you want to slice it.

[dvst8r]

So what your saying is that 1.5psi per degree is safe... 

I kid, I kid, I get that each one likes something different.

[ratcityrex]

call it 2* and youll be safe....lol

My bad.

[glustic]

$250 for a tune that took 8 hours because stupid crome wouldnt allow us to update the calibration. Had to figure out a sequence that would work in order for my ostrich to take the calibration.

1. Turn off car
2. Make necessary changes to bin
3. Save bin to desktop
4. Write
5. Verify

Anything else would fuck the tables up

[HiProfile]

305 whp at 12 psi mutant D16Z6, probably running ~9 degrees timing.  That's 1.6 deg/psi.

Above average 240 whp @ 10 psi Z6 with ram horn, etc. 12-12.5 degrees timing.  That's 1.55 deg/psi

Fresh D16Y8 with an Edelbrock kit, 8-9 psi IIRC.  It might have been 10 psi?  It made 215 whp, nothing special, I remember expecting more.  Let's call it 10 psi, 14.5 degrees final timing.  That makes 1.35 deg/psi.

D16Z6 Vitara motor, 7.5:1 CR, DSM T25.  The dictionary definition of friendly and laughs at detonation.  Spikes to 20+, tapers to 12-14 psi because internal gates are for Volkswagens.  195 whp 210 wtq tuned last year, set FTOD at the auto-x last month.  Call it 13 degrees final timing, that makes 1.1-1.25 deg/psi retard however you want to slice it.

How the hell?? I set a map for 1.25 deg/psi, and I had weird break-up issues. ADDED timing, something akin to .8 deg/psi, and it cleared up completely. Dyno graph was all jerky at 189whp, S-trim t3/t04b, 3" exhaust/cutout, ~8:1 Wiseco/Eagle D16z6 (stock head). I know what detonation sounds like, and I get zero. I have the ability to hear it loud & clear with my cutout closed.


I'm starting to think there's some weird problem with my car, like the belt jumped a tooth or the valves need major adjusting. I can't understand it though, it's driven & idled perfect for the last 10k miles. There's absolutely nothing wrong, it just doesn't make much power. No weird noises, no afr or temp oddities, no apparent ignition issues.



BTW to OP, I can introduce you to a real gem. A 16timer bin switcher - you can put 16 crome bins on it to make quickly determine a decent basemap, injector batt. offsets, ignition, etc. It's like moates' 2timer, except...obviously uses a large chip that holds 16 bins. LMK if you are interested.

[Joseph Davis]

305 whp at 12 psi mutant D16Z6, probably running ~9 degrees timing.  That's 1.6 deg/psi.

Above average 240 whp @ 10 psi Z6 with ram horn, etc. 12-12.5 degrees timing.  That's 1.55 deg/psi

Fresh D16Y8 with an Edelbrock kit, 8-9 psi IIRC.  It might have been 10 psi?  It made 215 whp, nothing special, I remember expecting more.  Let's call it 10 psi, 14.5 degrees final timing.  That makes 1.35 deg/psi.

D16Z6 Vitara motor, 7.5:1 CR, DSM T25.  The dictionary definition of friendly and laughs at detonation.  Spikes to 20+, tapers to 12-14 psi because internal gates are for Volkswagens.  195 whp 210 wtq tuned last year, set FTOD at the auto-x last month.  Call it 13 degrees final timing, that makes 1.1-1.25 deg/psi retard however you want to slice it.

How the hell?? I set a map for 1.25 deg/psi, and I had weird break-up issues. ADDED timing, something akin to .8 deg/psi, and it cleared up completely. Dyno graph was all jerky at 189whp, S-trim t3/t04b, 3" exhaust/cutout, ~8:1 Wiseco/Eagle D16z6 (stock head). I know what detonation sounds like, and I get zero. I have the ability to hear it loud & clear with my cutout closed.


I'm starting to think there's some weird problem with my car, like the belt jumped a tooth or the valves need major adjusting. I can't understand it though, it's driven & idled perfect for the last 10k miles. There's absolutely nothing wrong, it just doesn't make much power. No weird noises, no afr or temp oddities, no apparent ignition issues.

Got a picture of the dyno graph?

BTW to OP, I can introduce you to a real gem. A 16timer bin switcher - you can put 16 crome bins on it to make quickly determine a decent basemap, injector batt. offsets, ignition, etc. It's like moates' 2timer, except...obviously uses a large chip that holds 16 bins. LMK if you are interested.

I mentioned that to a guy earlier today, Expect him to be hassling you about one in the near future.

[HiProfile]

Tomorrow I'll have it up, I've been meaning to get it done for over a month. I'm only lazy with pictures, I swear. You'll see why I was interested in cleaning my injectors when you see the graph, it's weird as hell. Same dyno, same smoothing, same motor, and smaller/weaker turbo setup on Crome and it was uber smooth.

Hey if anyone is willing to pimp my shit and sell stuff for me, spread the word. I don't mind paying reasonable finder fees, either.

[sewell94]

It's almost time to get the GRM car tuned. Being in Canaduh there isn't many options. I may just have a street tune thrown on it while on the way down. I just want to know what I can expect.

I emailed a somewhat unknown. He goes through it all with me, then says $600 for 3 hrs.. HuH>?

Most places seem to charge $150-$250 an Hr .. is this normal?

I have a wideband and a Chip burner.. no Ostrich..Just wondering if I shouldn't just do it myself.

some of these kids tune 2 cars and build a website as mater tuners.. ArGh.

 
  You still meeting up with Scott here in Fl??  if so he spoke with me about getting your car dialed in.

[Joseph Davis]

It's almost time to get the GRM car tuned. Being in Canaduh there isn't many options. I may just have a street tune thrown on it while on the way down. I just want to know what I can expect.

I emailed a somewhat unknown. He goes through it all with me, then says $600 for 3 hrs.. HuH>?

Most places seem to charge $150-$250 an Hr .. is this normal?

I have a wideband and a Chip burner.. no Ostrich..Just wondering if I shouldn't just do it myself.

some of these kids tune 2 cars and build a website as mater tuners.. ArGh.

 
  You still meeting up with Scott here in Fl??  if so he spoke with me about getting your car dialed in.

I mentioned you to Lowerit as well.

[TTC]

Those are some interesting spark numbers, why are they so retarded at redline and full boost?  On my corolla im running like 23 degrees at 205 kpa and then 17 for 205kpa -250  Maybe its a honda thing.

[TTC]

This is what mine looks like

[Foowee]

I have the wideband and the burner. Messing with fuel doesn't scare me, I don't wanna touch timing...

Det cans and reading plugs will help you.  If you hear dry rice falling on tin foil, retard more in that section...

[Joseph Davis]

Those are some interesting spark numbers, why are they so retarded at redline and full boost?  On my corolla im running like 23 degrees at 205 kpa and then 17 for 205kpa -250  Maybe its a honda thing.

It's an every engine likes something a little different thing.  Hondas like fixed timing in VTEC, unless there's something screwed up with how the engine flows.  Subarus like rich AFRs and a lot of timing, Evos are fine at conventional AFRs and single digit timing.  SR20s want next to nothing for timing at the point boost comes all the way up on a stock turbo, and then you feed it in as the rpms climb.  KA24 like timing smoothly tapered up as the RPMs climb up (whereas most not-NisAnd because I'm an intellectual being,  do not).  Fords like a gentle increase in timing as the rpms go up, more so with the mod motors.

If you re-read my post I mention the peak boost on each car.  What I do is start off with a conservative retard and add timing in for each boost level I tune.  At some point I call it quits and that's where the big step down to small numbers or zeroes takes place.

[TTC]

Im going from a 14b to a small 16g this week, I'm prolly gonnna go from 16psi on the 14b to 18psi on the 16g.  Would a safe start be to knock off 2deg of timing from just before torque peak up?  Or start with 4deg of retard with the "1psi 1 degree" rule lol.