Topic: What wideband works perfectly with chrome/ectune? (Read 34668 times)

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #30 on:** October 14, 2009, 09:38:31 AM »

Quote from: bigwig on October 14, 2009, 02:13:34 AM

Quote from: lilpooh21186 on October 11, 2009, 10:22:15 PM
innovate lm-2 best 450 i ever spent it datalogs in its self has obd2 connectability and in ectune it can be connected as a seriel device so there is no messing with offset its a great device to use.

That's pretty slick. More widebands should offer that. I never liked the fact I could never trust the wideband and program to read the same....

Learn to ground your gear correctly, and you will never have this problem just like I never have this problem. I only check offset during initial hookup of the tuning gear, with the wideband putting out 2.38 volts aka 14.7. If the ECU reads differently (always higher) I log from a different pin as that input circuit is damaged. I only suspect ground problems if the battery compensation tables are a disaster.

Analog through-the-ECU solutions offer the advantage of keeping the information stream in sync. Serial solutions can get fucked sometimes if there's lag between the ECU putting out it's datastream and what the serial wideband is putting out... #1 reason UpRev's been lagging on bringing serial wideband support to their software for the early non-OEM WB cars. I've never experienced a problem with the Honda or older Nissan serial tuff but the newer Nissan stuff is prone to it and Innovate's documented problems with streams correctly syncing when used with Fords so they recommend 1/16 to 1/8 second signal delay.

You need to come through for the season change, sir. I will put your intelligent but under experienced ass through tuning boot camp. It's just like the military's version complete with yelling and slurs on your sexual orientation, only you don't have to call me sir or kiss my ass.

PhilStubbs · « **Reply #31 on:** October 14, 2009, 02:18:32 PM »

how exactly do you connect the WB to the ecu? i can think of a couple ways, just dont know the best

bigdaddyvtec · « **Reply #32 on:** October 14, 2009, 02:30:22 PM »

Andy:

Ill see ya at tommys on the dyno today... Ill come through around 4 or so...

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #33 on:** October 14, 2009, 02:39:49 PM »

Quote from: SecksyPeePee on October 14, 2009, 02:18:32 PM

how exactly do you connect the WB to the ecu? i can think of a couple ways, just dont know the best

I use a portable Onan diesel generator.

Robb · « **Reply #34 on:** October 14, 2009, 03:39:56 PM »

Quote from: SecksyPeePee on October 14, 2009, 02:18:32 PM

how exactly do you connect the WB to the ecu? i can think of a couple ways, just dont know the best

Ive always had good luck with JBweld myself. Gotta make sure the sensor adheres to the smooth ecu casing.

PhilStubbs · « **Reply #35 on:** October 14, 2009, 09:54:24 PM »

damn, JB weld. i cant belive i didnt think of that. i was trying to do it with just one wire connected to the plug. shit!!! thanks dude.

onlyflash944 · « **Reply #36 on:** October 18, 2009, 12:23:08 PM »

Quote from: Joseph Davis on October 12, 2009, 09:39:00 AM

Quote from: bikewrench on October 11, 2009, 10:41:14 PM
The JAW is cheap and has two programmable outputs.

Mine has been working great, its hard to beat if you're on a budget and can assemble it yourself

I've got a v1.02 or v1.03, and I still FAIL at giving it a proper usage. Harrass me about that if I don't have a writeup in this forum by this weekend, guys.

Am I missing a post somewhere?

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #37 on:** October 18, 2009, 12:51:44 PM »

Quote from: onlyflash944 on October 18, 2009, 12:23:08 PM

Quote from: Joseph Davis on October 12, 2009, 09:39:00 AM
Quote from: bikewrench on October 11, 2009, 10:41:14 PM
The JAW is cheap and has two programmable outputs.

Mine has been working great, its hard to beat if you're on a budget and can assemble it yourself

I've got a v1.02 or v1.03, and I still FAIL at giving it a proper usage. Harrass me about that if I don't have a writeup in this forum by this weekend, guys.

lolwut
Am I missing a post somewhere?

snm95ls · « **Reply #38 on:** October 18, 2009, 12:53:46 PM »

Quote from: Joseph Davis on October 18, 2009, 12:51:44 PM

Quote from: onlyflash944 on October 18, 2009, 12:23:08 PM
Quote from: Joseph Davis on October 12, 2009, 09:39:00 AM
Quote from: bikewrench on October 11, 2009, 10:41:14 PM
The JAW is cheap and has two programmable outputs.

Mine has been working great, its hard to beat if you're on a budget and can assemble it yourself

I've got a v1.02 or v1.03, and I still FAIL at giving it a proper usage. Harrass me about that if I don't have a writeup in this forum by this weekend, guys.

lolwut
Am I missing a post somewhere?

Aren't you supposed to be doing something in regards to this thread?

Maybe something involving a JAW?

onlyflash944 · « **Reply #39 on:** November 25, 2009, 02:24:03 PM »

Quote from: Joseph Davis on October 12, 2009, 09:39:00 AM

Quote from: bikewrench on October 11, 2009, 10:41:14 PM
The JAW is cheap and has two programmable outputs.

Mine has been working great, its hard to beat if you're on a budget and can assemble it yourself

I've got a v1.02 or v1.03, and I still FAIL at giving it a proper usage. Harrass me about that if I don't have a writeup in this forum by this weekend, guys.

bump

MantisX · « **Reply #40 on:** November 25, 2009, 03:44:53 PM »

I sold my LC-1 on ebay and picked up a PLX SM-AFR. May just be me, but the PLX reading is way more stable. The LC-1 reading was all over the place sometimes. Im still using the innovate gauge with the PLX though lol.

MantisX

PhilStubbs · « **Reply #41 on:** November 25, 2009, 04:13:28 PM »

maybe the reaction time of the innovate was faster. i dont know this to be fact, but its a possibility. i have never gotten wierd readings from my LC1

snm95ls · « **Reply #42 on:** November 25, 2009, 04:53:13 PM »

The LC-1 is factory programed to log instantaneous readings. You can slow down the response in the advanced settings.

It seems to be much more "stable" set to the slowest reading.

PhilStubbs · « **Reply #43 on:** November 28, 2009, 08:26:15 AM »

Quote from: onlyflash944 on November 25, 2009, 02:24:03 PM

Quote from: Joseph Davis on October 12, 2009, 09:39:00 AM
Quote from: bikewrench on October 11, 2009, 10:41:14 PM
The JAW is cheap and has two programmable outputs.

Mine has been working great, its hard to beat if you're on a budget and can assemble it yourself

I've got a v1.02 or v1.03, and I still FAIL at giving it a proper usage. Harrass me about that if I don't have a writeup in this forum by this weekend, guys.

bump

there is still time to get this done by monday

HiProfile · « **Reply #44 on:** November 28, 2009, 12:53:26 PM »

Quote from: bikewrench on October 11, 2009, 10:41:14 PM

The JAW is cheap and has two programmable outputs.

Mine has been working great, its hard to beat if you're on a budget and can assemble it yourself

First, if you can get that bastard to ship it, you've overcome one major hurdle. Next, if you don't have firmware issues, you've covered the next big one. Third, if you install a cold-point compensator chip between the thermocouple and input, you've almost got a decent wideband w/inputs.

IMO Techedge DIY FTW. I've got 2 running, and everything was slicker than dog shit. 6 inputs (6: 0-5v, or 3: 0-5v and 3: thermocouple), programable wideband & narrowband outputs, and a serial output stream akin to Innovate's. Oddly enough it was the only wideband programmed for my friend's Nissan Datascan crap he forced me to use.

For ectune in specific, the LC-1 is great. I sub that in for my techedge when I go mess with my car. It just sucks w/o a sensor cable extension. I made mine with my old PLX extension + connector from a dead wideband sensor.

Quote from: Joseph Davis on October 14, 2009, 09:38:31 AM

It's just like the military's version complete with yelling and slurs on your sexual orientation, only you don't have to call me sir or kiss my ass.

I hope you don't shower nekkid together.

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #45 on:** November 28, 2009, 03:42:22 PM »

j.h.christ · « **Reply #46 on:** November 28, 2009, 04:46:32 PM »

bikewrench · « **Reply #47 on:** November 29, 2009, 03:16:51 AM »

Quote from: HiProfile on November 28, 2009, 12:53:26 PM

Quote from: bikewrench on October 11, 2009, 10:41:14 PM
The JAW is cheap and has two programmable outputs.

Mine has been working great, its hard to beat if you're on a budget and can assemble it yourself

First, if you can get that bastard to ship it, you've overcome one major hurdle. Next, if you don't have firmware issues, you've covered the next big one. Third, if you install a cold-point compensator chip between the thermocouple and input, you've almost got a decent wideband w/inputs.

It took me over six weeks to get mine, and could not get a e-mail returned. He did send me a free NAW to make up for it. I guess I got lucky on the firmware.

What is this compensator chip, you got any links to that mod?

Have you logged rpm in jaw edit? Do you know what the rpm signal voltage is on a obd1 honda?

PhilStubbs · « **Reply #48 on:** November 29, 2009, 02:08:05 PM »

damn, you people are scaring me with this shipping shit. i really wanted to get one of these to use as a permanent install wideband but i dont know now. i might just send my old lc1 in to be repaired rather than take my chances getting a JAW.

what is the NAW?

bikewrench · « **Reply #49 on:** November 29, 2009, 06:17:16 PM »

Quote from: SecksyPeePee on November 29, 2009, 02:08:05 PM

what is the NAW?

Its a super small controller, it fits in a tic-tac box, and only has a few leds for a display. I believe its intended to put in the cars ecu case, and feed the o2 input in the ecu with a wide band signal. I think it has a couple of programmable outputs like the jaw. I haven't put mine together yet.

check out the forum on 14point7.com if you want more shipping stories.

onlyflash944 · « **Reply #50 on:** November 29, 2009, 06:28:25 PM »

i guess since the new baby is on the way, hotrex had to find a second job as shipping manager

98vtec · « **Reply #51 on:** November 30, 2009, 12:46:52 AM »

the innovate is the only wideband ectune will read straight from the serial port. Too bad i hate that wideband. PLX has been pretty good to me.

AEM sucks
Innovate rules if you can live with the constant recalibrations and picky grounding circuitry
Zeitronix had a great logger, too bad the ZT2 box sucked balls
NTK AFX is about as worthless as bigdaddy's tranny rebuilds and has a piss ass slow sampling rate
PLX, no issues thus far.

HiProfile · « **Reply #52 on:** November 30, 2009, 04:34:30 AM »

Quote from: bikewrench on November 29, 2009, 03:16:51 AM

What is this compensator chip, you got any links to that mod?

http://www.me.psu.edu/sommer/me445/AD595.pdf

The problem with the JAW is that it's simply an op-amp inside that does a quick & dirty signal amplification. A proper setup will include ice point correction aka cold junction compensation. IIRC you have to turn it into a regular input (1x vs 100x) to use it with that $11 chip. Not sure if there are other chips that do only ice point compensation.

I've never used one since when I finally decided to order, he disappeared for a few months. I got so pissed at zero communication I just bought 2 techedge DIY's. I paid 2x more and didn't get a display, but I made a bar graph for $10 and I get 3x the amount of inputs - plus ice point compensation. It's also a tried & true design that dates back almost 10 years, updated with a pre-tested/build SMD brain. I also didn't have to pull teeth ordering & hacking to get a usable sensor cable. To top it off, I got it shipped from Australia to Wisconsin in 1/3 the time of the fastest shipment ever recorded on the JAW forum.

I see his new NAW_7S is now $110 shipped & assembled, but you still need to deal with getting the sensor cable. I also don't see any inputs. ATM the Techedge 2Y from wbo2.com is $108 in USD.

d112crzy · « **Reply #53 on:** November 30, 2009, 04:48:24 AM »

A wideband is one of those things that I'd never look into getting as cheap as I could.

PLX has some of the most simplest wideband designs and are still quite affordable. They're not finicky and they do their job damn well. I need to upgrade my m300 to the new tuner edition. Shit's been going strong for over 3 years and at least been on 100 different cars.

As for the offset thing, I've never had a problem with my wb reading different than what Crome does. Be sure the motor/ecu/wb are all grounded properly and you won't have issues.

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #54 on:** November 30, 2009, 10:01:06 AM »

Quote from: HiProfile on November 30, 2009, 04:34:30 AM

I just bought 2 techedge DIY's. I paid 2x more and didn't get a display, but I made a bar graph for $10 and I get 3x the amount of inputs - plus ice point compensation. It's also a tried & true design that dates back almost 10 years,

I have a couple of dead ones, since you love them so much you wouldn't mind picking them up from me for a good price?

Quote from: 98vtec on November 30, 2009, 12:46:52 AM

NTK AFX is about as worthless as bigdaddy's tranny rebuilds and has a piss ass slow sampling rate

I agree with you, more or less, about your opinion on the other brands of wideband. Not that I disagree with you on the NGK AFX, as I've only tuned one car with one, but I had a positive experience and have had two other tuners I trust recommend them.

Plus, I'm also sick of the Bosch sensors that die die die all the time especially with racegas. I have plans to purchase an NGK AFX for it's NTK sensor support and build an analog to serial converter that mimicks the Innovate serial interface so that I get the bet of both worlds.

Anyway, I'm babbling. Can you break down the exact problem you had with your NGK AFX?

onlyflash944 · « **Reply #55 on:** November 30, 2009, 11:52:55 AM »

Bosch sensors don't like race (leaded) gas? I know most leaded gas kills O2 sensors but is the bosch just worse for it?

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #56 on:** November 30, 2009, 11:55:10 AM »

I have no experience monitoring sensor life w/ racegas with anything other than a Bosch WB. ~5-8 hours of racegas starts barely slowing resonse time and 12-15 hours results in a damaged sensor. Inbetween, I really wouldn't trust it. Several tuners make the customer pay for a fresh sensor if they want a racegas tune, and it's the customer's sensor when the tune is done because you can't trust it anymore.

DmC · « **Reply #57 on:** November 30, 2009, 12:17:13 PM »

I like how the bosch sensors read a little bit differantly from sensor to sensor. You can take a perfectly fine sensor that hasn't been abused with leaded fuel and then switch it out with another good one and they read a point or two off of each other.
I really wrestle with this stuff in my head sometimes it shakes my confidence a little bit ,over time you figure out that the wideband is just a rough guess at what actual afr is and not the absolute truth. You can't always trust the wideband.
Ive had two bosch lsu4.2's that will read 11:1 on anything under 14:1. that was a tuff one to figure out the first time around.

Robb · « **Reply #58 on:** November 30, 2009, 12:58:32 PM »

With as many weird o2 sensor problems (heater,pump,etc.) as I see on vw/porsche, none of this suprises me. The standard wideband for the lc-1 is the same wideband vw has used for years. Do they have o2 problems? Yeah, but most of em end up being heater problems. Not the actual sensing components of the unit.

ApexSilver06MR · « **Reply #59 on:** November 30, 2009, 01:08:56 PM »

Quote from: SecksyPeePee on October 14, 2009, 02:18:32 PM

how exactly do you connect the WB to the ecu? i can think of a couple ways, just dont know the best

http://www.lukekailburn.com/lc1.html

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Author Topic: What wideband works perfectly with chrome/ectune? (Read 34668 times)