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[Doug]

90%+ cops are just straight pussies who have a cock up their ass. I have yet to be helped by a cop when I needed one. They sure as hell are there to be annoying though. Where are you when I need your assistance? Oh I know too busy writing retarded ass tickets or sitting at a closed business parking lot talking it up.

Anyone who thinks the couple is to blame is a retarded tool. Please tell me how you could possibly judge the speed/distance of a car at night, from several football fields away, and with TWO cars beaming headlights in your direction. I think EVERY cop car should be attached to GPS which is tracked and sent to some state agency they monitors police behavior. It could be tied in somehow that it would show if it was as a time of a dispatch/lights on and if those two aren't present then you are written up and ticketed. The fact is our sorry police need to be policed.

[Doug]

One thing I have noticed is how they use to all have at least their parking lights on when sitting on side of the road or parking lot at night. Now they are all sitting there in the dark. I've had two cases where I dumb ass state trooper is parked across the median intersection and if I didn't see him at the last min would have plowed into him. I thought about going back a couple times and turning in slow but still hit them and then sue for creating hazardous conditions.

[Passenger]

Less fatal.  Right.

While I would usually be with you on that bashing that stupid statement I meant to imply the likely hood of at least one of the teens surviving. All aside, we are being technical here and I was technically incorrect. You got me. I should have said there being a possibility of less fatalities.

Have you ever been in, or witnessed, an accident where someone is t-boned like that?  If speed limits were obeyed, in most cars made after 1990 those kids would have survived FACT.  A police cruiser isn't some jacked up steel bumper truck, it impacted directly in the door bar where the car is designed to withstand a hard impact - everything else is crumple zones in the cruiser.

FYI, Raymond McDade survived (after 3 weeks in the hospital) being T-bones by Officer Spears of the APD, uhm, 14 years ago?  Officer Spears was doing 88 in a 30 mph zone (no lights no siren) and came up over a blind hill after Raymond had started to pull out.  Justin Boring, in the passenger seat, lightly fractured his left arm and was able to get out of the car before the cop got out of his.  Same exact impact as the one in the video linked to in the first post.

Yes I have witnessed crashes like this, also witnessed a forklift tbone, top speed of maybe 10mph, buddy that got hit knocked his head on the roll bar just the right way and died. There are too many variables in a crash to predetermine if someone will live or not. I do agree that most of the time a tbone at 45mph in relatively modern cars you are likely to survive, but, you never know.

[Passenger]

Back to the drivers, I wouldn't doubt that they realized their poor decision before they died, but poor choices are made (the cop speeding was certainly one of them) and they died. Two poor decisions resulted in death, this shouldn't be such a shocker. What about more surprising things in life like people making good decisions and dying as a result of them?

the only poor choice, was made by the officer.  the driver of the car made no poor choice, only failed to recognize how fast the cop was coming. 


This is a chicken and egg argument here, and I think it's pretty obvious to 9/10 posting that the bigger wrong (blaitently breaking the speeding law vs. not seeing the cop car comming at well above posted speed limit) was commited by the officer. Would the accident happened if the car wouldn't of turned?  or what about if the cop wasn't speeding.  You can look at it either way.  Bottom line is the cop car was far enough away from the intersection when the car made the turn to easily avoid a collision if he wasn't going 90 something.  cops know better than to do that kind of shit, but they do because they get away with it way too often.

Not really, the accident could have occurred without regard to the officers speed. The officer had the right of way, the teens cut in front of him. Unfortunately the speed that the officer was driving at was enough to be fatal for the teens, had he been going the speed limit it is very likely the impact would have been less fatal, if even at all.

look, i can argue till i'm blue in the face and it might not do any good.  so if you continue to feel that the driver "pulled out infront of a vehicle that was going way over the speed limit, so it's the car making the turn's fault" then thats fine.  maybe you're right.  maybe not.  

but i'm going to try to get you to understand where i'm comming from (which is probably a waste of my time).  I don't know about you, but right now, I drive a bus for a living.  Sure its only 15-20 hours a week, but thats a lot of seat time.  Personally, the majority of the time when I make a left hand turn across oncomming traffic, I look to see how big of a hole there is.  Not the closing speed of the closest car.  I'm guessing the driver did too.  The space between the intersection and the cop car would have been MORE than enough space to safely make the turn had the cop been going the speed limit.  Now re-read until you at least comprehend what I'm saying.  I didn't say re-read till you agree with me.

Now some information to support my theory of people not looking at speeds.  Everyone in town thinks 40 foot, 37,000 lb busses are slow.  Know how I know?  On a DAILY basis, someone pulls out infront of me while I'm doing the speed limit.  People think, "here comes a big bus, I bet it's going slow so I can beat it."  They take it for granted that I must be slow because I'm a big vehicle.  Of course I have to slow down to keep from hitting them, but I'm willing to bet they do not take the time to accurately assess the bus' true speed before pulling out.  This is what happened to the driver of the car.  They saw they had plenty of room to make the turn for the space given and for the oncoming car traveling at a resonable speed.  So they proceded to make the turn, oblivious to the fact that the cop was going over 90 without lights and sirens.  You want to blame the teens driving?  Go ahead, all they did was take something for granted.  The fact is that the cop was speeding like hell, and didn't have lights and sirens on to alert others of his speed.  If they had been on, we woudln't even have this thread.  cop is at fault, end-of-story

Its not that I don't understand where any of you guys are coming from, I do. But at least when I drive on the street, I am not really so much worried about myself causing an accident as I am worried about some dumbass, texting while driving, doing makeup, driving too fast and not paying attention etc running into me.

Its kind of funny, last night, not even 25 minutes after my last post driving to a friends place I nearly t boned a guy in a jeep. I was cruising through the intersection about 5-10mph over the speed limit, as I entered the intersection the light turned yellow, at this point there is a white jeep about 150 ft out of the intersection, it didn't even occur to me that someone would try to make this turn, but without fail, this guy gave it a try, and turned into my lane, I had to turn into his to miss him (keep in mind that this is all happening outside of the intersection about 30 feet) anyways he hits the raised island where the street lamps are narrowly missing the post and pitches the jeep onto two wheels.
Life is funny like that.

[Doug]

Back to the drivers, I wouldn't doubt that they realized their poor decision before they died, but poor choices are made (the cop speeding was certainly one of them) and they died. Two poor decisions resulted in death, this shouldn't be such a shocker. What about more surprising things in life like people making good decisions and dying as a result of them?

the only poor choice, was made by the officer.  the driver of the car made no poor choice, only failed to recognize how fast the cop was coming. 


This is a chicken and egg argument here, and I think it's pretty obvious to 9/10 posting that the bigger wrong (blaitently breaking the speeding law vs. not seeing the cop car comming at well above posted speed limit) was commited by the officer. Would the accident happened if the car wouldn't of turned?  or what about if the cop wasn't speeding.  You can look at it either way.  Bottom line is the cop car was far enough away from the intersection when the car made the turn to easily avoid a collision if he wasn't going 90 something.  cops know better than to do that kind of shit, but they do because they get away with it way too often.

Not really, the accident could have occurred without regard to the officers speed. The officer had the right of way, the teens cut in front of him. Unfortunately the speed that the officer was driving at was enough to be fatal for the teens, had he been going the speed limit it is very likely the impact would have been less fatal, if even at all.

look, i can argue till i'm blue in the face and it might not do any good.  so if you continue to feel that the driver "pulled out infront of a vehicle that was going way over the speed limit, so it's the car making the turn's fault" then thats fine.  maybe you're right.  maybe not.  

but i'm going to try to get you to understand where i'm comming from (which is probably a waste of my time).  I don't know about you, but right now, I drive a bus for a living.  Sure its only 15-20 hours a week, but thats a lot of seat time.  Personally, the majority of the time when I make a left hand turn across oncomming traffic, I look to see how big of a hole there is.  Not the closing speed of the closest car.  I'm guessing the driver did too.  The space between the intersection and the cop car would have been MORE than enough space to safely make the turn had the cop been going the speed limit.  Now re-read until you at least comprehend what I'm saying.  I didn't say re-read till you agree with me.

Now some information to support my theory of people not looking at speeds.  Everyone in town thinks 40 foot, 37,000 lb busses are slow.  Know how I know?  On a DAILY basis, someone pulls out infront of me while I'm doing the speed limit.  People think, "here comes a big bus, I bet it's going slow so I can beat it."  They take it for granted that I must be slow because I'm a big vehicle.  Of course I have to slow down to keep from hitting them, but I'm willing to bet they do not take the time to accurately assess the bus' true speed before pulling out.  This is what happened to the driver of the car.  They saw they had plenty of room to make the turn for the space given and for the oncoming car traveling at a resonable speed.  So they proceded to make the turn, oblivious to the fact that the cop was going over 90 without lights and sirens.  You want to blame the teens driving?  Go ahead, all they did was take something for granted.  The fact is that the cop was speeding like hell, and didn't have lights and sirens on to alert others of his speed.  If they had been on, we woudln't even have this thread.  cop is at fault, end-of-story

Its not that I don't understand where any of you guys are coming from, I do. But at least when I drive on the street, I am not really so much worried about myself causing an accident as I am worried about some dumbass, texting while driving, doing makeup, driving too fast and not paying attention etc running into me.

Its kind of funny, last night, not even 25 minutes after my last post driving to a friends place I nearly t boned a guy in a jeep. I was cruising through the intersection about 5-10mph over the speed limit, as I entered the intersection the light turned yellow, at this point there is a white jeep about 150 ft out of the intersection, it didn't even occur to me that someone would try to make this turn, but without fail, this guy gave it a try, and turned into my lane, I had to turn into his to miss him (keep in mind that this is all happening outside of the intersection about 30 feet) anyways he hits the raised island where the street lamps are narrowly missing the post and pitches the jeep onto two wheels.
Life is funny like that.

No one is saying that there aren't dumbasses that don't know how to drive. People pull out in front of people and make bad turns all the time. They are just saying in this case the cop was a long distance away which anyone, especially at night, would have perceived as safe to turn. His high rate of speed covered a large distance very quickly which most normal drivers would be unable to judge.

[crttaz]

has anyone mentioned they found weed in the car?




I bet it was the cops

[onlyflash944]

has anyone mentioned they found weed in the car?




I bet it was the cops

http://littering.ytmnd.com/

[crttaz]

meow

[Passenger]

long distance + partially/mostly obstructed by the cruiser in the left

moving at a high rate of speed compared to the left hand car makes your car (the right one) hide behind the left one when viewed from the other side of the road.  even if that cop had his lights on in the day time he would have been obstructed from view.. his rate of speed made him blend in with the other cruiser when viewed from the intersection.  this is a tactic I've used to hide from cops sitting in the median popping radar. 

The cruiser second cruiser blocking view is a poor excuse, its even more reason to sit and wait, you shouldn't cross the calle unless you have a clear view, holmes.

[onlyflash944]

long distance + partially/mostly obstructed by the cruiser in the left

moving at a high rate of speed compared to the left hand car makes your car (the right one) hide behind the left one when viewed from the other side of the road.  even if that cop had his lights on in the day time he would have been obstructed from view.. his rate of speed made him blend in with the other cruiser when viewed from the intersection.  this is a tactic I've used to hide from cops sitting in the median popping radar. 

The cruiser second cruiser blocking view is a poor excuse, its even more reason to sit and wait, you shouldn't cross the calle unless you have a clear view, holmes.

A clear view of the car you can't see and didn't know was comming at 90+?

[random-strike]

all cops are criminals.

the cop is entirely at fault... STRING HIM UP

[j.h.christ]

has anyone mentioned they found weed in the car?




I bet it was the cops

LEO's would never do something like that. they are objective and loyal to the truth.

[Passenger]

long distance + partially/mostly obstructed by the cruiser in the left

moving at a high rate of speed compared to the left hand car makes your car (the right one) hide behind the left one when viewed from the other side of the road.  even if that cop had his lights on in the day time he would have been obstructed from view.. his rate of speed made him blend in with the other cruiser when viewed from the intersection.  this is a tactic I've used to hide from cops sitting in the median popping radar. 

The cruiser second cruiser blocking view is a poor excuse, its even more reason to sit and wait, you shouldn't cross the calle unless you have a clear view, holmes.

A clear view of the car you can't see and didn't know was comming at 90+?

Check the middle of my last sentence. Its what you are supposed to do.

[Joseph Davis]

So sit and wait for the thing you can't even see?  What?  So the next time I'm at a light and I see a car I can beat and I go but there is someone going 94 miles an hour that comes flying out from behind them it's my fault when I get t-boned?  I had no idea it was there even though I was looking directly at it.  Yeah.. ok.. that makes sense it's no fault at all of the person driving nearly 2.5x the speed limit.

The imbecile scores a point against Passenger.  Impressive.

[j.h.christ]

has anyone mentioned they found weed in the car?




I bet it was the cops

"Although police found a small amount of marijuana in the couple's car, a toxicology report found no traces of the drug in their blood, Halloran said."

yep, they had a dimebag, but had none in their system? must've been their first bag. yeah fucking right.

shitbag cop planted it. fucking disgusting.

[Passenger]

So sit and wait for the thing you can't even see?  What?  So the next time I'm at a light and I see a car I can beat and I go but there is someone going 94 miles an hour that comes flying out from behind them it's my fault when I get t-boned?  I had no idea it was there even though I was looking directly at it.  Yeah.. ok.. that makes sense it's no fault at all of the person driving nearly 2.5x the speed limit.

Actually yes, you would have to be a complete dumbass to make a left hand turn across a 2 lane roadway with a vehicle in your nearest lane. Of course you can't see, that is why you wait. IF you were to repeat this scenario and everyone was doing the speed limit, and you turned anyways, YOU would be the cause of the accident, not the hidden vehicle. You are responsible for waiting until it is safe to turn, if something is blocking your vision to guarantee there is no one coming you are required to wait.

[Passenger]

So sit and wait for the thing you can't even see?  What?  So the next time I'm at a light and I see a car I can beat and I go but there is someone going 94 miles an hour that comes flying out from behind them it's my fault when I get t-boned?  I had no idea it was there even though I was looking directly at it.  Yeah.. ok.. that makes sense it's no fault at all of the person driving nearly 2.5x the speed limit.

The imbecile scores a point against Passenger.  Impressive.

Hardly

[patsmx5]

So sit and wait for the thing you can't even see?  What?  So the next time I'm at a light and I see a car I can beat and I go but there is someone going 94 miles an hour that comes flying out from behind them it's my fault when I get t-boned?  I had no idea it was there even though I was looking directly at it.  Yeah.. ok.. that makes sense it's no fault at all of the person driving nearly 2.5x the speed limit.

Well, I wouldn't ASSume there's nobody behind/beside the other car, especially if it's a big truck of SUV. I'm sure 99% of the time there isn't a speeding car passing the one I can see, but you never know. I know most people just assume it's safe and go, but I don't make assumptions like that when driving. I'll catch the next light or whatever. I don't do something if I don't KNOW it's safe. But I'm a very defensive driver. You might get it right guessing most of the time, but you'll never get it right 100.000000% of the time, and who's fault it is don't matter when you're dead.

[j.h.christ]

So sit and wait for the thing you can't even see?  What?  So the next time I'm at a light and I see a car I can beat and I go but there is someone going 94 miles an hour that comes flying out from behind them it's my fault when I get t-boned?  I had no idea it was there even though I was looking directly at it.  Yeah.. ok.. that makes sense it's no fault at all of the person driving nearly 2.5x the speed limit.

Actually yes, you would have to be a complete dumbass to make a left hand turn across a 2 lane roadway with a vehicle in your nearest lane. Of course you can't see, that is why you wait. IF you were to repeat this scenario and everyone was doing the speed limit, and you turned anyways, YOU would be the cause of the accident, not the hidden vehicle. You are responsible for waiting until it is safe to turn, if something is blocking your vision to guarantee there is no one coming you are required to wait.

the speed limit is there for this specific reason. if the pig would have been doing it, the teens could and would have made it across. because the pig chose to break the law and have wanton disregard for the very public he was sworn to protect, there are 2 dead kids.

[Ntrain2k]

all cops are criminals.

Did anyone not see that coming?

[Passenger]

So sit and wait for the thing you can't even see?  What?  So the next time I'm at a light and I see a car I can beat and I go but there is someone going 94 miles an hour that comes flying out from behind them it's my fault when I get t-boned?  I had no idea it was there even though I was looking directly at it.  Yeah.. ok.. that makes sense it's no fault at all of the person driving nearly 2.5x the speed limit.

Well, I wouldn't ASSume there's nobody behind/beside the other car, especially if it's a big truck of SUV. I'm sure 99% of the time there isn't a speeding car passing the one I can see, but you never know. I know most people just assume it's safe and go, but I don't make assumptions like that when driving. I'll catch the next light or whatever. I don't do something if I don't KNOW it's safe. But I'm a very defensive driver. You might get it right guessing most of the time, but you'll never get it right 100.000000% of the time, and who's fault it is don't matter when you're dead.

Well at least someone gets it. I am hoping the reasoning behind the others ignorance is getting caught up in cop hating drama, and not the fact they are actually too stupid to understand this.

[j.h.christ]

So sit and wait for the thing you can't even see?  What?  So the next time I'm at a light and I see a car I can beat and I go but there is someone going 94 miles an hour that comes flying out from behind them it's my fault when I get t-boned?  I had no idea it was there even though I was looking directly at it.  Yeah.. ok.. that makes sense it's no fault at all of the person driving nearly 2.5x the speed limit.

Well, I wouldn't ASSume there's nobody behind/beside the other car, especially if it's a big truck of SUV. I'm sure 99% of the time there isn't a speeding car passing the one I can see, but you never know. I know most people just assume it's safe and go, but I don't make assumptions like that when driving. I'll catch the next light or whatever. I don't do something if I don't KNOW it's safe. But I'm a very defensive driver. You might get it right guessing most of the time, but you'll never get it right 100.000000% of the time, and who's fault it is don't matter when you're dead.

Well at least someone gets it. I am hoping the reasoning behind the others ignorance is getting caught up in cop hating drama, and not the fact they are actually too stupid to understand this.

it's not a matter of cop hating drama. if the cop had been doing the speed limit, this wouldn't have happened.

[patsmx5]

So sit and wait for the thing you can't even see?  What?  So the next time I'm at a light and I see a car I can beat and I go but there is someone going 94 miles an hour that comes flying out from behind them it's my fault when I get t-boned?  I had no idea it was there even though I was looking directly at it.  Yeah.. ok.. that makes sense it's no fault at all of the person driving nearly 2.5x the speed limit.

Well, I wouldn't ASSume there's nobody behind/beside the other car, especially if it's a big truck of SUV. I'm sure 99% of the time there isn't a speeding car passing the one I can see, but you never know. I know most people just assume it's safe and go, but I don't make assumptions like that when driving. I'll catch the next light or whatever. I don't do something if I don't KNOW it's safe. But I'm a very defensive driver. You might get it right guessing most of the time, but you'll never get it right 100.000000% of the time, and who's fault it is don't matter when you're dead.

Well at least someone gets it. I am hoping the reasoning behind the others ignorance is getting caught up in cop hating drama, and not the fact they are actually too stupid to understand this.

it's not a matter of cop hating drama. if the cop had been doing the speed limit, this wouldn't have happened.

this wouldn't have happened if:

a- cop would have been doing speed limit, had his lights on, been at the donut shop, etc.
b- kids would have been paying attention and driving defensively.

So while you can easily blame either party involved, either COULD have prevented it. I 100% agree the cop fucked up, and I hope they throw the book at him.

I guess my only point is the driver was not helpless, and the wreck was not inevitable.

[onlyflash944]

So sit and wait for the thing you can't even see?  What?  So the next time I'm at a light and I see a car I can beat and I go but there is someone going 94 miles an hour that comes flying out from behind them it's my fault when I get t-boned?  I had no idea it was there even though I was looking directly at it.  Yeah.. ok.. that makes sense it's no fault at all of the person driving nearly 2.5x the speed limit.

Well, I wouldn't ASSume there's nobody behind/beside the other car, especially if it's a big truck of SUV. I'm sure 99% of the time there isn't a speeding car passing the one I can see, but you never know. I know most people just assume it's safe and go, but I don't make assumptions like that when driving. I'll catch the next light or whatever. I don't do something if I don't KNOW it's safe. But I'm a very defensive driver. You might get it right guessing most of the time, but you'll never get it right 100.000000% of the time, and who's fault it is don't matter when you're dead.

Well at least someone gets it. I am hoping the reasoning behind the others ignorance is getting caught up in cop hating drama, and not the fact they are actually too stupid to understand this.

it's not a matter of cop hating drama. if the cop had been doing the speed limit, this wouldn't have happened.

this wouldn't have happened if:

a- cop would have been doing speed limit, had his lights on, been at the donut shop, etc.
b- kids would have been paying attention and driving defensively.

So while you can easily blame either party involved, either COULD have prevented it. I 100% agree the cop fucked up, and I hope they throw the book at him.

I guess my only point is the driver was not helpless, and the wreck was not inevitable.

i agree, but if blame must be placed, and i've yet to hear of an accident where both parties got off scott free, you have to point the finger at the cop going way to fast, not the driver who had plenty of room to make a turn if on comming traffic is even doing something close to the speed limit. 

[bigwig]

So sit and wait for the thing you can't even see?  What?  So the next time I'm at a light and I see a car I can beat and I go but there is someone going 94 miles an hour that comes flying out from behind them it's my fault when I get t-boned?  I had no idea it was there even though I was looking directly at it.  Yeah.. ok.. that makes sense it's no fault at all of the person driving nearly 2.5x the speed limit.

Well, I wouldn't ASSume there's nobody behind/beside the other car, especially if it's a big truck of SUV. I'm sure 99% of the time there isn't a speeding car passing the one I can see, but you never know. I know most people just assume it's safe and go, but I don't make assumptions like that when driving. I'll catch the next light or whatever. I don't do something if I don't KNOW it's safe. But I'm a very defensive driver. You might get it right guessing most of the time, but you'll never get it right 100.000000% of the time, and who's fault it is don't matter when you're dead.

Well at least someone gets it. I am hoping the reasoning behind the others ignorance is getting caught up in cop hating drama, and not the fact they are actually too stupid to understand this.

it's not a matter of cop hating drama. if the cop had been doing the speed limit, this wouldn't have happened.

this wouldn't have happened if:

a- cop would have been doing speed limit, had his lights on, been at the donut shop, etc.
b- kids would have been paying attention and driving defensively.

So while you can easily blame either party involved, either COULD have prevented it. I 100% agree the cop fucked up, and I hope they throw the book at him.

I guess my only point is the driver was not helpless, and the wreck was not inevitable.

i agree, but if blame must be placed, and i've yet to hear of an accident where both parties got off scott free, you have to point the finger at the cop going way to fast, not the driver who had plenty of room to make a turn if on comming traffic is even doing something close to the speed limit. 

Good thing we don't live in a world where we have all or nothing.

Clearly the cop should have been traveling at a more reasonable speed and had his lights/siren on.  Because of this, he deserves a suspended license(5+ years seems reasonable), major fines, and lots and lots of community service.  1-5 years in jail also seems appropriate.

As for the other driver, obviously they weren't a good/great driver.  It's pretty clear that no one else is on that road and as a result, they could have waited for the 2 cars to pass by before making the turn.  Forget the depth perception argument.  Although it is completely valid, I'd rather take the argument that the driver should have seen 2 cars approaching(possibly cop cars) at a reasonable pace on an empty road and since no one was behind said cars, wait the 30 seconds, and turn after the other cars passed.  The driver who got killed obviously didn't do anything illegal, but did not use great judgement.

[random-strike]

pathetic, are you guys so brainwashed you would actually defend this scumbag? utterly pathetic.

if one of us did that we'd be in jail. with manslaughter MINIMUM.

[Passenger]

So sit and wait for the thing you can't even see?  What?  So the next time I'm at a light and I see a car I can beat and I go but there is someone going 94 miles an hour that comes flying out from behind them it's my fault when I get t-boned?  I had no idea it was there even though I was looking directly at it.  Yeah.. ok.. that makes sense it's no fault at all of the person driving nearly 2.5x the speed limit.

Well, I wouldn't ASSume there's nobody behind/beside the other car, especially if it's a big truck of SUV. I'm sure 99% of the time there isn't a speeding car passing the one I can see, but you never know. I know most people just assume it's safe and go, but I don't make assumptions like that when driving. I'll catch the next light or whatever. I don't do something if I don't KNOW it's safe. But I'm a very defensive driver. You might get it right guessing most of the time, but you'll never get it right 100.000000% of the time, and who's fault it is don't matter when you're dead.

Well at least someone gets it. I am hoping the reasoning behind the others ignorance is getting caught up in cop hating drama, and not the fact they are actually too stupid to understand this.

it's not a matter of cop hating drama. if the cop had been doing the speed limit, this wouldn't have happened.

this wouldn't have happened if:

a- cop would have been doing speed limit, had his lights on, been at the donut shop, etc.
b- kids would have been paying attention and driving defensively.

So while you can easily blame either party involved, either COULD have prevented it. I 100% agree the cop fucked up, and I hope they throw the book at him.

I guess my only point is the driver was not helpless, and the wreck was not inevitable.

i agree, but if blame must be placed, and i've yet to hear of an accident where both parties got off scott free, you have to point the finger at the cop going way to fast, not the driver who had plenty of room to make a turn if on comming traffic is even doing something close to the speed limit. 

Wrong, by law you are required to WAIT until it is safe to turn left across a roadway with oncoming traffic REGARDLESS of the oncoming traffics speed. Unless of course driving laws differ on the subject for the east coast vs the west coast, I doubt they do. If you can't determine if it is safe to cross or not prepared to get hit at one point in time or another, regardless of oncoming traffic speed.

[random-strike]

retarded logic.

so it'd still be the kids fault if he was going 180mph??? he should know when its safe to turn or not

[ryan89crx]

pathetic, are you guys so brainwashed you would actually defend this scumbag? utterly pathetic.

if one of us did that we'd be in jail. with manslaughter MINIMUM.

one of the few times im going to agree with Johnny

[Passenger]

retarded logic.

so it'd still be the kids fault if he was going 180mph??? he should know when its safe to turn or not

Absolutely, if I drive my auto onto a set of train tracks when a train is coming, but I think I can beat it, and don't, is it the trains fault?