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[HiProfile]

I'm wondering what the whole process entails, and how successful it usually is. I'll probably have to side-step the seller and paypal since this guy is avoiding me now. From paypal's guides regarding chargebacks, his situation looks very bad.


He claimed manifold & TPS cracked during shipping (was pre-existing) and forgot to send the iacv & MAP, did an insurance claim (gave me the # when I rattled him), and said it went through for the full amount. Then he says he'll only give me half of it and the missing parts. 2 weeks after the normal 7-10 days it takes for their insurance checks to come through, I still have no refund and no shipped parts. This is a full 2 months after I initially paid the bastard.

I have everything logged in the paypal dispute, while he didn't leave one note. I also have pics he posted (showing the crack if you know what you're looking for) and my own, clear-as-day pics. I just want this to be smooth & decisive if possible. If I get anything less than the full amount or have to ship it back, I'm definately calling CanadaPost and letting them know he lied to them.

[chris]

Im 99.999999999 percent sure they dont go that far in their disputes. I think all they look at is if you got a package.

[Jorsher]

Im 99.999999999 percent sure they dont go that far in their disputes. I think all they look at is if you got a package.

I'm 99.999999999% percent sure Chris is correct.  They don't really care and don't really investigate.

I sold a couple phones to some douche in Hawaii for over $300.  Shipped it parcel post since it was the shipping method he chose.  He quickly filed a claim and was given the money by time the package got there.  Paypal wouldn't do shit even though it showed the package did get delivered and was signed by him.

Chargebacks are done through your credit card company.  He can't do shit about it.  I'd try to let Paypal take care of it first, and if that doesn't work then go the chargeback route.

[chris]

Anything of real value ships fedex ground with direct signature. This is key in not getting fucked. Do not just have signature. Make the person being shipped to sign for it


If you must ship us mail always ship priority. Parcel is a joke and takes 2 weeks to move 500 miles.

[Ravage70]

FEDEx ground is outsourced
Fedex Express is the real deal

[Joseph Davis]

If you must ship us mail always ship priority. Parcel is a joke and takes 2 weeks to move 500 miles.

UPS Ground is also a joke.  If the parcel somehow gets to your local facility in the first 36 hours, they make a point of it sitting there 3-5 more days so you get the shipping method you "paid" for.  I've watched that happen four times now.

[chris]

fedex ground is nice they will usually get a package within 5 hours delivered the day after it ships

[Phate]

i did a charge back 2 times.
you need to make sure that the banks understands what paypal is.

both times i did this they took the money from paypal, which made my paypal account go negative.
guess what paypal does if your account goes negative... take the money out of your bank.
also make sure you don't have any money in your paypal account or your bank will be giving you "your money" back.

the second time i did a charge back i had like $5 in my paypal account and the amount was $60 so i really only got $55 back.
however 2 weeks later i got the item in the mail so really i paid $5 for the thing instead of $60.

no idea why the guy took 2 months to ship the damn thing and no idea why he didn't email me back or answer/return my calls.

when i got it in the mail i thought it might have been lost in mail or something, but the ship date was 4 days before i got it.

I'm currently in a similar situation, hoping its just gonna arrive very late.  Wierdly, the guy isn't answering me back.  I am attempting to have paypal contact him on the issue.

[Doug]

i did a charge back 2 times.
you need to make sure that the banks understands what paypal is.

both times i did this they took the money from paypal, which made my paypal account go negative.
guess what paypal does if your account goes negative... take the money out of your bank.
also make sure you don't have any money in your paypal account or your bank will be giving you "your money" back.

the second time i did a charge back i had like $5 in my paypal account and the amount was $60 so i really only got $55 back.
however 2 weeks later i got the item in the mail so really i paid $5 for the thing instead of $60.

no idea why the guy took 2 months to ship the damn thing and no idea why he didn't email me back or answer/return my calls.

when i got it in the mail i thought it might have been lost in mail or something, but the ship date was 4 days before i got it.

Going to have to call BS on you on that one. If you file a charge back from a item you bought the seller eats the money, I've had this done to me a few times. Also Pay Pal can't take anything out of your account without your permission, that's called theft and or fraud.

[ghettoturbo]

If you must ship us mail always ship priority. Parcel is a joke and takes 2 weeks to move 500 miles.

UPS Ground is also a joke.  If the parcel somehow gets to your local facility in the first 36 hours, they make a point of it sitting there 3-5 more days so you get the shipping method you "paid" for.  I've watched that happen four times now.

never had them do it with ground, but i do believe they do that with 2nd day air/3 day select to make sure it takes the exact amount of time they quoted you for.

[SloS13]

Don't mean to thread-jack but I'm having my own Paypal problems right now.

Sold a guy some injectors, he asked they be shipped to a completely different person.  I sent them out and the buyer said they never arrived.  I sent proof of shipping to Paypal but they fucked me over and sided with the buyer so I'm SOL.

fucking PayPal...

[Ntrain2k]

Fuck paypal

www.paypalsucks.com

[jagojon3]

I've done a chargeback against paypal more than once. Works great, they can't do shit about it 

[Jorsher]

i did a charge back 2 times.
you need to make sure that the banks understands what paypal is.

both times i did this they took the money from paypal, which made my paypal account go negative.
guess what paypal does if your account goes negative... take the money out of your bank.
also make sure you don't have any money in your paypal account or your bank will be giving you "your money" back.

the second time i did a charge back i had like $5 in my paypal account and the amount was $60 so i really only got $55 back.
however 2 weeks later i got the item in the mail so really i paid $5 for the thing instead of $60.

no idea why the guy took 2 months to ship the damn thing and no idea why he didn't email me back or answer/return my calls.

when i got it in the mail i thought it might have been lost in mail or something, but the ship date was 4 days before i got it.

Going to have to call BS on you on that one. If you file a charge back from a item you bought the seller eats the money, I've had this done to me a few times. Also Pay Pal can't take anything out of your account without your permission, that's called theft and or fraud.

when you do a charge back through your bank account all the do is reverse the charge. the "charge" in this situation is paypal doing a transfer from your bank account to your paypal account.
so your bank takes the money back from paypal. just so happens that they reverse the "transfer" which leaves you minus in your paypal account.
now if you have your paypal account set up like me, they have a backup account they use if your transfer does not go through.

in my situation i use my bank visa card, if something goes wrong with that transfer they just pull the money straight out of my account.

if you file a charge back through your bank they don't even know what the sellers name or account is. all they know is they are gonna reverse the charge. so how is your bank gonna take money out of the sellers account?

now when you file a claim with paypal they take the money from the other guys account, if he has the money in his paypal account.


i think you are confusing a charge back with filing a paypal claim.
two way different things

I'm going to have to agree with Doug.  After having multiple accounts go negative for BS reasons and dropping them, Paypal has NEVER taken money out of my account on their own accord.

When you pay, you're agreeing to pay for the purchase, so yes they will take it from your Visa card or bank account.

When someone takes money from you and your account goes negative, you don't inherently agree to pay for it so they can't legally take the money from you.

By buying, you're agreeing to pay.  When someone takes your money without your consent, like buy a chargeback, there was no such agreement to pay.

If you don't pay you won't be able to use paypal and eventually it could end up on your credit report.

[HiProfile]

i think you are confusing a charge back with filing a paypal claim.
two way different things

They automaticly closed the claim a day early before I was able to escalate it. I had tons of into in their notes, etc, while the seller input nothing. Like a dumbass I tried to be nice and settle it face to face, per se. But I just read this on paypal - apparently I'd be screwed either way since I got the item, despite it being broken: "You should not escalate a Dispute for Significantly Not as Described (SNAD) to a Claim because PayPal will not make a decision on a SNAD Claim under the PayPal Buyer Complaint Policy."

A credit card chargeback is totally different from a bank reversal. From what I read, Regulation Z affords CC users quite a lot of protection. In the past I know paypal has done shady shit - locking accounts, sometimes pulling from your bank w/o authorization, etc. But I think they've probably been warned enough by the feds and follow the rules for the most part. That paypalsucks website is ancient and definately not up to date. I just wanted to see if it has changed recently.

I think I'm going to close that bank account and take the risk, and I only have a $0.04 paypal balance atm. Worst case is I can't use one of my CC's on paypal anymore, use my mom's in the mean time, and I sign up again either with my name or my dad's. It's just going to be a hastle since it's the same account I use to pay my CC's online. I'll try harassing the guy 1st, posting in his other FS threads (H-T btw, what'd you expect).



BTW one 3rd party site I read said you basicly have to use paypal's shipping services or you're screwed. You need insurance, confirmation, and require a signature all through them.

[Corey]

some asshole filed a claim on me because they changed thier mind about buying something and i didnt have the money in the account so i told them i would refund them in a few days when the money cleared to my bank account. well they didnt want to wait so they escalated it and paypal gave it to them, since i didnt have the money in my paypal paypal instantly took it right from my bank account.

so yes they will absolutley take it right out of your bank account if you have one attached to your paypal.

[Jorsher]

Very odd since I've had 3 accounts go negative on paypal, all with bank accounts attached, and never had any taken.

You should contact a lawyer.

[Joseph Davis]

Don't mean to thread-jack but I'm having my own Paypal problems right now.

Sold a guy some injectors, he asked they be shipped to a completely different person.  I sent them out and the buyer said they never arrived.  I sent proof of shipping to Paypal but they fucked me over and sided with the buyer so I'm SOL.

fucking PayPal...

Anyone local?

[bigwig]

Read paypal's user agreement and you will quickly figure out how to ship with paypal.  Always shipped to confirmed addresses and use their shipping label/purchasing thing and you will get a fair shake at a dispute.

As for charge back, paypal is a glorified credit card processing company.  As long as you paid with a credit card, call them up, and tell them the issue.  They will override paypal as paypal has no authority over someone like Visa or MC or AMEX.

I really should add, that you NEED TO MAKE SURE YOU PAY WITH A CREDIT CARD WHEN USING PAYPAL, AND NOT THROUGH YOUR BANK ACCOUNT.  A lot of people have their bank account linked to their paypal.  That's fine, but as a default paypal will always take the money out of your bank account over your listed credit card because it saves them money and allows them to have complete control over the transaction.  Make sure you select your credit card when purchasing through paypal, and they will have no shot at disputing any issues.

[Jorsher]

You can change the default source of funds between your debit card or bank account.

[Doug]

some asshole filed a claim on me because they changed thier mind about buying something and i didnt have the money in the account so i told them i would refund them in a few days when the money cleared to my bank account. well they didnt want to wait so they escalated it and paypal gave it to them, since i didnt have the money in my paypal paypal instantly took it right from my bank account.

so yes they will absolutley take it right out of your bank account if you have one attached to your paypal.

Then you should have contacted a lawyer the same day.

i didn't say that paypal took the money out of my bank account, i said that your paypal account will go negative. paypal tried to take the money out of my account, my bank would not let them.
my bank changed my account number so paypal couldn't take the money out. after the second time they tried to do this, my bank said fuck that shit.

i just had to jump through a bunch of hoops to get my paypal account active again.

just cause something is wrong, illegal or has never happened to you DOES NOT MEAN it has never happened to someone else.

HiProfile: i didn't say you are confusing a charge back and paypal claim. i said that doug did.

i did a charge back 2 times.
you need to make sure that the banks understands what paypal is.

both times i did this they took the money from paypal, which made my paypal account go negative.
guess what paypal does if your account goes negative... take the money out of your bank.
also make sure you don't have any money in your paypal account or your bank will be giving you "your money" back.

the second time i did a charge back i had like $5 in my paypal account and the amount was $60 so i really only got $55 back.
however 2 weeks later i got the item in the mail so really i paid $5 for the thing instead of $60.

no idea why the guy took 2 months to ship the damn thing and no idea why he didn't email me back or answer/return my calls.

when i got it in the mail i thought it might have been lost in mail or something, but the ship date was 4 days before i got it.

So wait Pay Pal tries to take the money out of your account, which to your bank would appear like any other Pay Pal transfer. Somehow this time though your bank magically knows it's Pay Pal and not you and takes it on their own accord to change your account #'s? Either you bank in Wonderland or need to articulate your stories better.

[chris]

Slo,



Thats totally on you. I have people try to pull that little trick all the time refund their money since paypal and any other company aka credit cards will only cover you if you ship to the correct person,address


If paypal allowed that to be covered it would be the biggest internet fraud trick in the book.

[rsmith2786]

FEDEx ground is outsourced
Fedex Express is the real deal

When I worked for the USPS we did some of the Federal Express stuff and they did some of our parcels.

[SloS13]

Slo,

Thats totally on you. I have people try to pull that little trick all the time refund their money since paypal and any other company aka credit cards will only cover you if you ship to the correct person,address


If paypal allowed that to be covered it would be the biggest internet fraud trick in the book.

Well I tried appealing the Paypal decision anyways.  I read their "Seller Protection Policy"

Proof of shipment is acceptable documentation if a buyer files a chargeback or reversal for an unauthorized payment. You need a document from a shipping company that:

   1. Shows the status as shipped or delivered, or shows a postmark.
   2. Shows the date of shipment.
   3. Includes the recipient’s address, showing at least the city/state or ZIP code (or their equivalent).

and I provided them exactly that, which they ignored.

[Urban Indian]

my paypal story is that I apparently owed Ebay some money because I had some concert tickets that I sold online. The buyer ended up not paying.

I told Ebay that the buyer skipped out what should I do? They said re-list it and pay another Ebay fee, and I couldnt leave any feedback for the buyer because apparently your not allowed to leave negative feedback anymore.

ANYWAYS Ebay said I owed them $40 because I used their service, I complained about it. I was in my period of contacting customer support and trying to resolve this issue but they told paypal and guess what? Paypal took the $40 out of my account that had nothing in it (because I dont leave money in that account) and I got dinged with a NSF charge & NSF interest for 2 months.

So........ fuck the both of them.


Oh ya, I sold my ACDC tickets on stubhub for more than my ebay auction was. My 2 tickets in Vancouver that I sold paid for my trip & new tickets to Tacomadome


Anybody ever used google checkout? My transaction through there was smooth like butter. I dont think there was much/if any charges for using them.


 I sold the tickets on StubHub for more than my ebay auction was.

[Doug]

i didn't say that paypal took the money out of my bank account, i said that your paypal account will go negative. paypal tried to take the money out of my account, my bank would not let them.

if you account goes negative they take the money out of your bank
my bank did not let them.
[/quote]

Odd since I have one Pay Pal account negative for $800 and one for $250 that have been negative for about 4+ years. Never enter your social and they can't really do shit. If they take money out of your account and you don't approve you need to get on the phone with a lawyer ASAP. That's bank fraud and is a hella payout.

[chris]

Urban you use the non paying bidder option. Someone doesnt pay in 7 days that was the old rule you can now file them in 4 days. They have 7 days to pay once you start the non paying bidder or you getting your final fee back and will be out a couple bucks for initial listing fees



That option has been on ebay since I started on ebay back in 2002.

[HiProfile]

i didn't say that paypal took the money out of my bank account, i said that your paypal account will go negative. paypal tried to take the money out of my account, my bank would not let them.

if you account goes negative they take the money out of your bank
my bank did not let them.

Odd since I have one Pay Pal account negative for $800 and one for $250 that have been negative for about 4+ years. Never enter your social and they can't really do shit. If they take money out of your account and you don't approve you need to get on the phone with a lawyer ASAP. That's bank fraud and is a hella payout.
[/quote]

Paypal probably has somewhere in their TOS that they can do that. However, from what I read, the official method is supposed to be putting a hold on money via negative balance.


BTW the noghead has not logged into H-T since a few hours after sending my "mean" message on Saturday. I'm emailing the addy he used for paypal as a final warning, then going ahead with a chargeback Monday. Even if he ships the missing parts, I taking the full amount.

I'd like to keep this abused junk to improve the next manifold. I want to use this IAB plate to enlarge the plenum (stacking two) on the next stock manifold, and I'll also reduce the short runner's length with some grinding...

[Urban Indian]

Urban you use the non paying bidder option. Someone doesnt pay in 7 days that was the old rule you can now file them in 4 days. They have 7 days to pay once you start the non paying bidder or you getting your final fee back and will be out a couple bucks for initial listing fees



That option has been on ebay since I started on ebay back in 2002.

I asked them about it and they replied with relist it and you do not have to pay the relist fee. Otherwise you owe us $50 or whatever.

It was lame and I was new at the internet.

[HiProfile]

Just a little update, I tried being nice and gave the douche till after x-mas like he asked. No refund or response as of today, so...I filed for a chargeback.


Anyone know how long it takes? Paypal's seller guide said you get 3 days or something to defend yourself. I'm really hoping this will be a quick snatch & grab.