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[Joseph Davis]

Sewell's had good experiences, I've had one good and one bad.  Goforth doesn't like them.  They will work with correct clearances (do you have a good machinist?) but if shit gets a little too hot and the clearance gets critical they will fail where a traditional bore/piston combo would survive.  For a "built" motor it's a little retarded.

IIRC, the mahles are forged, they just have some special coating correct? That would explain the p/w being so crucial. The people who had failure are the ones that knocked the coating off and they galled..

Eric Byrd at Mahle said the coating was bullshit, it was all about the clearances.  Reread Spiker's first post to this thread about nine times, understand it deep in your soul, and then do what Phate said in the post right below it about running an F22 block.

[Joseph Davis]

Oh, yeah, Eric Byrd also told Sewell to his face he was full of shit about making 500+ on their gold series pistons and them lasting for two years.  It was a classic moment in import history.   

Not that I'm sure Sewell hasn't had exactly the results he claims, it's just that an engineer familiar with his own company's product line doesn't fully trust them.  I think that says something about living with FRM sleeves - why would you want to?

[sewell94]

Oh, yeah, Eric Byrd also told Sewell to his face he was full of shit about making 500+ on their gold series pistons and them lasting for two years.  It was a classic moment in import history.   

Not that I'm sure Sewell hasn't had exactly the results he claims, it's just that an engineer familiar with his own company's product line doesn't fully trust them.  I think that says something about living with FRM sleeves - why would you want to?

Talk to stewie about it, i built the first one for him, then he tolaled the car, i then bought the  drivetrain setup off of him.

Whats funny about talking to the guys at Mahle is Eric Byrd said one thing which was that it was the clearances, it had nothing to do with the coating, and that he didnt work on designing that project, he made that clear,i think becauce he seen it as a failure......While the engineer that actually worked on the project said it was the coating that made everything work.

I really think that its my machinest whose got it right, i've sent other people to him to have him bore/hone their h22/mahle piston builds, he said he hasnt had anyone give negative feedback. I do know hes doing something very different when he hones it, he used to do ALOT of BMW/Porsche stuff so hes used to working with werid cylinder walls.

[Joseph Davis]

Oh, yeah, Eric Byrd also told Sewell to his face he was full of shit about making 500+ on their gold series pistons and them lasting for two years.  It was a classic moment in import history.   

Not that I'm sure Sewell hasn't had exactly the results he claims, it's just that an engineer familiar with his own company's product line doesn't fully trust them.  I think that says something about living with FRM sleeves - why would you want to?

Talk to stewie about it, i built the first one for him, then he tolaled the car, i then bought the  drivetrain setup off of him.

Whats funny about talking to the guys at Mahle is Eric Byrd said one thing which was that it was the clearances, it had nothing to do with the coating, and that he didnt work on designing that project, he made that clear,i think becauce he seen it as a failure......While the engineer that actually worked on the project said it was the coating that made everything work.

I really think that its my machinest whose got it right, i've sent other people to him to have him bore/hone their h22/mahle piston builds, he said he hasnt had anyone give negative feedback. I do know hes doing something very different when he hones it, he used to do ALOT of BMW/Porsche stuff so hes used to working with werid cylinder walls.

Good points, and in truth my estimation of Eric was he was a good natured V8 guy with little interest in (and good natured scorn for) 4 cyl motors so you can take his $0.02 with a grain of salt, but the conclusion that I draw from this is that the knowledge and science of FRM sleeves is fucking weird as demonstrated by how shit goes wrong a LOT.  That sleeved S2K motor was purchased because Casey got fifteen different stories on how to hone FRM sleeves, to not hone FRM sleeves at all, that IP had a special hone they did that made everything work, Mahle said something different from everybody else, yadda yadda.

[sewell94]

i agree, FRM shit is weird, I've had extremely good results with them. I have no problem with using them in my own personal builds. My take is that the FSM tells you that they can be bored/honed, but you gotta find the right machinest who knows how to work with it.   

I'll keeping build more h22 mahle engines though.

[Joseph Davis]

And I'll keep recommending that people who have machinists of questionable aptitude or interest run F22 blocks.

[98vtec]

I tuned a mahle/pro2 NA motor a couple years ago and as far as i know its still up and running.  From what i have been told, the reliability of these pistons goes out the window when you add boost.  The clearances are extremely important.  Don (DFE) was telling me that you have to run larger on the PTW since the pistons will expand at a much faster rate than the cylinder walls will considering the cylinder walls ability to move heat. 

I'll see if i can find it but i used to have a PDF file from JE explaining that the ring material played a large part in making the pistons work. 

[mycarslow]

dang never thought it would turn to t.wo pages lol ... looks like alot more bad then i want to deal with

[bouncinofftherevlimiter]

Seriously bro stay away frm the mahles go the G series route with the DSM pistons..... 

QFT

the reason i say this is that is is a huge gamble, i debated the mahle route but found the dsm/F to be a more predictable route, i didnt feel like taking that chance. Tom and i talked about the mahles before and he likes them, i just went the route i did because iron sleeve, forged piston has been fun forever, and everyone knows the results of that. i really did want the H22 so i could get more rpm, right now im turning 8k.

could you pm me a list of your clusterfuck hybrid as you call it  sir .

the list is posted in my build thread, honestly im just lazy and dont feel like typing it. i listed most of it above and its relatively simple. there is a h-t link that will tell you all about the bottom end stuff by ashb82, and prelittlelude has an awesome write up about the H head on the F bottom

FYI the F20b head and H22 heads are almost identical. as far as swap is concerned they are the same.

I'm pretty sure i have a good H22a4 55mm main crank at my shop, i can check when i get back in town.

is there anything you DONT have at your shop, fuck tom, no wonder you have no room to work on your shit...

Oh, yeah, Eric Byrd also told Sewell to his face he was full of shit about making 500+ on their gold series pistons and them lasting for two years.  It was a classic moment in import history.   

Not that I'm sure Sewell hasn't had exactly the results he claims, it's just that an engineer familiar with his own company's product line doesn't fully trust them.  I think that says something about living with FRM sleeves - why would you want to?

JD you pretty much said it all, i find it very ironic that the "company man" dosent think they should be used in a performance app, that would make me uneasy. i appreciate his honsetly though, instead of pushing shit even if they dont beleive in it. sounds like a decent guy

And I'll keep recommending that people who have machinists of questionable aptitude or interest run F22 blocks.

/thread??









 

[98vtec]

tom do you have any h23/f22 cranks in good shape? 


let me know, i will buy it.

[sewell94]

tom do you have any h23/f22 cranks in good shape? 


let me know, i will buy it.

tom do you have any h23/f22 cranks in good shape? 


let me know, i will buy it.

i pretty sure i do

[PhilStubbs]

when my shop bitch pulled a 1-2-3-2, spun a main/rod,

moRon?

[sewell94]

when my shop bitch pulled a 1-2-3-2, spun a main/rod,

moRon?

no that would be crazy eye Dan. moRons just a bitch, not my shop bitch.

[PhilStubbs]

yea. lol.

at least he has you covered if you need someone to ask retarded questions.

i remember thinking to myself, "this guy is either really smart, or completely retarded"