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Author Topic: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD  (Read 14171 times)

onlyflash944

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What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« on: December 27, 2009, 11:57:07 PM »

Ok, so I've been sitting on this information for a while just because I've been WAY too lazy to actually post something about it.  Part of it probably is because I don't have the right tools to accurately measure the runout that several other people have mentioned with the latest generation of OBX 40mm LSDs from Chinaland.  So what I will tell you is what I found and what I did to 'fix' the problem.  This included brand new hardware and springs

Straight out of the really crappy packaging that didn't really protect the unit.  It's a solid chunk of steel so I wasn't too worried about it.


Shot of the spring washers like they came from the factory


Starting to unscrew the SHCS.  Right off you notice that a few of the screws were way harder to get out than others


As you can see, a couple of the screws seem cross threaded.  I marked which holes the hard ones were on the case


Close up of the worse ones


Bevelle spring comparison.  A typical problem with these LSDs is that the springs fail.  So, I found some from MSC that were a bit thicker and felt way better. Factory installed are on the right


Ok, so here is the money shot.  Those screws are not cross threaded.  When I was looking over the unit after pulling out the screws, a few of the holes in the top half of the case didn't really match up with the threaded holes in the bottom half.  Oddly enough, the ones that looked like they didn't match up too well were the ones that the screws were hard to get out.  There was just enough room so that when you fooled with it a bit, you could get the screws started, but they were not happy being tightened down.  So what to do?  The easy solution was to drill out the upper half to make the holes a little bigger so that the poor machining wasn't as noticable.  I did this with a drill bit that was just a size or two bigger than the hole was to begin with.  Now it was much easier to get screws in and out and it didn't take enough material off the top half to hurt being able to hold the case together


Here is the thing.  With the LSD straight out of the box, I was able to clearly notice the runout wobble with the unit installed in the clutch half of the transmission case.  When I took the unit apart, and installed just enough screws to hold it together in holes that were 'good' the run out wobble went away.  I'm not saying it was completely gone, but I couldn't see it with my eye and I looked really closely.  After the above modifications, I tested it again after locktiteing all the screws, installing the upgraded springs and re-tapping the screw holes for good measure.  Same thing, no wobble.  The screws went in much easier now that they were not having to deform themselves to get in the hole.  Now I don't have a nice dial gauge with magnetic base to test things and get real numbers, but I was more than happy with the results of my modifications.  LSD got installed, and I've put about 1600 miles on it, no problems with the modifications.  Even snapped a half shaft at the drag strip.  I also did the same thing for a unit that went in Dr. D-Series' car and he hasn't had any complaints.  Only thing we both noticed, which had been documented by other people on the interwebz, was that one of the axles is snug and could use a little bit of loving from a brake hone to make it easier to get in and out. 

So I submit this post to you, RHMT.  Take it or leave it, maybe someone will find it useful.  I also have a bunch of extra beefier bevelle spring washers and one grade stronger SHCS bolts that fit these suckers cause MSC sells bulk, so if anyone wants to just buy enough to do one, I got you covered for nog cheap.
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lilpooh21186

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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2009, 12:04:31 AM »

buddy has the first gen fail were the pass axle doesnt come out they work great though
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onlyflash944

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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2009, 12:08:34 AM »

buddy has the first gen fail were the pass axle doesnt come out they work great though

different problem.  what he has is where they didn't machine a shoulder in the internal teeth so the snap ring gets stuck.  this is where they didn't make a hole big enough for the smooth part of the axle but if you grease it up, it will go in with some persuasion
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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2009, 12:08:47 AM »

You pull the DS Axle out and mid shaft first....  Then you can stick a 1/4" extension through the middle of the washers and tap the slut out.


No biggie, but everyone bitching about it wasnt smart enough to think about it
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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2009, 12:19:15 AM »

I was wondering when you were going to post this up. Too bad you didn't have a dial indicator to measure the runout, interesting nonetheless.
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Joseph Davis

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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2009, 12:35:27 PM »

Nice writeup, Blake.  If you think about it, the chinese are trying to be precise within the limits of their understanding, so it makes sense that some of the bolt holes line up while others do not.

FYI, China Freight sells a serviceable dial indicator and magnetic base for ~$25.

You pull the DS Axle out and mid shaft first....  Then you can stick a 1/4" extension through the middle of the washers and tap the slut out.


No biggie, but everyone bitching about it wasnt smart enough to think about it

I modified mine out of the gate.

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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2009, 01:52:23 PM »

Does anyone know for sure if the latest gen. of the obx is the same as the mirage lsd?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/88-91-CIVIC-SOHC-HELICAL-TORSEN-LSD-SLIP-DIFFERENTIAL_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem33559b5797QQitemZ220479575959QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

If the fix for the runout issue is this simple I may have to snag a backup...
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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2009, 01:56:28 PM »

Taco Taco

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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2009, 02:35:10 PM »

Taco Taco

sticky sticky or post a link in JD's useful threads please. ;D

ryan89crx

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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2009, 02:43:02 PM »

Does anyone know for sure if the latest gen. of the obx is the same as the mirage lsd?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/88-91-CIVIC-SOHC-HELICAL-TORSEN-LSD-SLIP-DIFFERENTIAL_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem33559b5797QQitemZ220479575959QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

If the fix for the runout issue is this simple I may have to snag a backup...
Do you honestly think that company went out and found a NEW supplier for the Quaife knockoff?
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onlyflash944

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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2009, 04:25:04 PM »

300 is less than the group buy that was attempted a while back.  Found a few more pics in photobucket

Packaging




Here is the other problem that I had when installing the unit.  While putting the FD on, I used the stock left hand thread bolts and the flange didn't clear the casing on one hole.  Again true precision from the slant eyes


As with every diff install, you need to re-shim the casing


Another comparison of the stock washers vs. my beefy MSC ones
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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2009, 04:26:13 AM »

so, split open a new OBX POS, correct the issues, void any warranty, then try to use it.

Guess what, for the time and effort wasted you could buy a diff from my competitor for $650, drop it in, check shim, and go.
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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2009, 11:00:59 AM »

Really?  You'd rather spend $650 than $300, re-drilling some holes, n grabbing some hardware? 

The problems I can think of w/the obx:  the axle sticking, ring gear bolts hitting the body, the runout/bolt hole issue, and having to grind the case to install sometimes...  I don't see these things as a major issue. 

I think the warranty issue would be a worthwhile arguement if there was a high rate of failure among the obx units.  I just haven't seen any come apart.

I don't see the mfactory diff saving $350 dollars of labor w/the above problems.  I'm sure this info. sucks for aquafina, as he seems to be a stand up fellow and his finger wand is kind of cool too, I think he's gonna have a hard time being the middle child now... 
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onlyflash944

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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2009, 02:14:58 PM »

so, split open a new OBX POS, correct the issues, void any warranty, then try to use it.

Guess what, for the time and effort wasted you could buy a diff from my competitor for $650, drop it in, check shim, and go.

from what i understand, you build transmissions for some customers that are very serious about racing.  sounds like a lot of them are willing to pay good money to get the quality work you do and the quality parts you install.  to each his own.  i am all about doing shit myself, saving money, and most of the time i actually enjoy working on the car as much as driving it.  i intended this stuff to be for the cheap DIYer like me, hence why it is on this website and not elsewhere
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Ntrain2k

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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2009, 02:15:56 PM »

so, split open a new OBX POS, correct the issues, void any warranty, then try to use it.

Guess what, for the time and effort wasted you could buy a diff from my competitor for $650, drop it in, check shim, and go.

from what i understand, you build transmissions for some customers that are very serious about racing.  sounds like a lot of them are willing to pay good money to get the quality work you do and the quality parts you install.  to each his own.  i am all about doing shit myself, saving money, and most of the time i actually enjoy working on the car as much as driving it.  i intended this stuff to be for the cheap DIYer like me, hence why it is on this website and not elsewhere

The motherfucking RHMT way!
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ratcityrex

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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2009, 02:22:05 PM »

I was just going through my pm box and was gona ask you about this....lol Good find!
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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2009, 02:45:11 PM »

You get what you pay for. OP you did not have the tools to check and see if what you did fix the issues. You may have help the issues, but with out checking it the right way there is no way to tell. Thus this info can be useless.
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onlyflash944

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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2009, 02:47:07 PM »

You get what you pay for. OP you did not have the tools to check and see if what you did fix the issues. You may have help the issues, but with out checking it the right way there is no way to tell. Thus this info can be useless.

true


i highly doubt the modifications made things worse.  but if two people have been using them on the road and haven't had any problems, that says something
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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2009, 02:58:12 PM »

Don't know if there is a ton of difference between the Honda units and the Neon units, but a ton of TD guys have been running the neon units with few failures. They upgrade the washers, retorque all of the bolts and go.

The failures I am aware of mostly came from wheel hopping the hell out of them in dry burnout boxs and on launches.
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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2009, 02:59:34 PM »

Really?  You'd rather spend $650 than $300, re-drilling some holes, n grabbing some hardware? 

The problems I can think of w/the obx:  the axle sticking, ring gear bolts hitting the body, the runout/bolt hole issue, and having to grind the case to install sometimes...  I don't see these things as a major issue. 

I think the warranty issue would be a worthwhile arguement if there was a high rate of failure among the obx units.  I just haven't seen any come apart.

I don't see the mfactory diff saving $350 dollars of labor w/the above problems.  I'm sure this info. sucks for aquafina, as he seems to be a stand up fellow and his finger wand is kind of cool too, I think he's gonna have a hard time being the middle child now... 

Ya oi posted in that thread over there.. Hope he dont get pissed. I even tried to be nice  :yes:
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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2009, 03:14:06 PM »

link to said hardware repair kit.




well.. whats taking so long?
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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2009, 03:23:12 PM »

I have it bookmarked at home.....
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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2009, 04:48:31 PM »

Oh, BTW you do have to clearance the case in d series cable transmissions to clear the diff bolts. If you don't, the diff will do it for you  :noel:


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onlyflash944

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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2009, 06:36:02 PM »

link to said hardware repair kit.

very useful website that I used to go over the two units i have messed with

http://rbryant.freeshell.org/obx_washers.htm



p.s.  i'm not trying to steal this guy's business, i'm just trying to get rid of some of this extra hardware i had to order
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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2009, 06:38:18 PM »

link to said hardware repair kit.

very useful website that I used to go over the two units i have messed with

http://rbryant.freeshell.org/obx_washers.htm



p.s.  i'm not trying to steal this guy's business, i'm just trying to get rid of some of this extra hardware i had to order

Thats the site i ordered mine from. Theyre holding up Saweet.
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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2009, 07:35:46 PM »

Really?  You'd rather spend $650 than $300, re-drilling some holes, n grabbing some hardware? 

When he signs his name to his work, and if there's anything else defective with the OBX unit that results in him eating shipping, dropping more $ in time/parts/etc, it doesn't make sense for him to fool with it.

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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2009, 07:53:45 PM »

Really?  You'd rather spend $650 than $300, re-drilling some holes, n grabbing some hardware? 

When he signs his name to his work, and if there's anything else defective with the OBX unit that results in him eating shipping, dropping more $ in time/parts/etc, it doesn't make sense for him to fool with it.

exactly
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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2009, 08:46:11 PM »

almost worth picking up an OBX just to try it on the NA car... RHMT discount on hardware too.  hm.

not to mention i got a base and dial gauge here..
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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2009, 10:01:18 PM »

not to mention i got a base and dial gauge here..

I unpacked mine today.

Now to find a HT kid who's read the bad press, and scoop theirs off of them.  I need one for the classic Si.

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Re: What I found with the new generation OBX LSD
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2009, 10:44:11 PM »

not to mention i got a base and dial gauge here..

I unpacked mine today.

Now to find a HT kid who's read the bad press, and scoop theirs off of them.  I need one for the classic Si.
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