Topic: Good idea/bad idea? (RWD V8 project) (Read 7232 times)

HiProfile · « **on:** February 13, 2012, 10:26:32 PM »

So I'm probably going to trash the 500whp gsr civic idea (still keeping the built/boosted D16). I figured I'd rather not have TWO force-inducted FWD cars, and instead go RWD.

I really want to do v8 into a rwd car like an SC300 or a E36. All the local SC300's are pimped out in 22's and eye-stabbing paint, BMW's not so much. GTO's and the like are still more than I want to pay, and they just feel big/fat.

http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/cto/2839936801.html

I figure this one is a decent start, as it looks like an M3 but I have to pay for the M52. I don't have to worry about smog/emissions either in WI. All the BS on this car could sell for some return, as a LQ4/LM7 would need something different. I have a friend that deals heavily with turbocharged GM shit in other chassis's, so that won't be too bad of a problem. Short term I'd run it stock with a delta cam & minor bolt-ons.

slappynuts · « **Reply #1 on:** February 13, 2012, 10:36:16 PM »

Bad idea. Two of the best engines ever built came in the E36 and the SC300.

tekno · « **Reply #2 on:** February 13, 2012, 10:46:47 PM »

yeah but they wont make the numbers he wants n/a im sure. Therefore i vote bimmer with a lsjuan cause e36's are just sexy and have some serious handling potential.

HiProfile · « **Reply #3 on:** February 13, 2012, 10:58:17 PM »

I'm looking at 2 major factors:

1) Ease of making >500whp
2) Price

Those are 2 things not easy to do at the same time with an M50 or a 2JZ-GE. I should have mentioned long-term it will have a big fat turbo on the motor. My friend had a mustang he's dropped a forged LS1 into, built his own turbo kit, and tuned it himself. He was turning 11's with worn street tires with just 5psi.

92CXyD · « **Reply #4 on:** February 13, 2012, 11:04:33 PM »

SC300 = poor man's Supra

But I believe the BMW has more tune ability options.

Both if in good condition = baller status

Get the cheapest of the two, if it is cheaper to do a LSx in it then go for it.

But I think it would still be cheaper with the SC300, baring any crack head pricing you may come across on Crackheadslist.

pitobread · « **Reply #5 on:** February 13, 2012, 11:08:24 PM »

1uzfe an SC300, 1uz's can be had for absolutely dirty cheap in bagged on SC400's.

Dyno of a bone stock internals 1uz from a Canuck yota forum, Megasquirt and Precision Turbo Billet 6262

HiProfile · « **Reply #6 on:** February 13, 2012, 11:13:16 PM »

There are a few SC300's in the 2k range, but as I said they all will smell like pimp juice and weed. 3-series in the same condition are 500-1k more.

PhilStubbs · « **Reply #7 on:** February 13, 2012, 11:13:53 PM »

I'm dying inside thinking about a v8 in an e36. I have one and couldn't imagine doing that to it. Why not rx7, 240, etc?

slappynuts · « **Reply #8 on:** February 13, 2012, 11:18:36 PM »

M50 + holset + sinktrap + chip tune = 500whp pretty easily.

PhilStubbs · « **Reply #9 on:** February 13, 2012, 11:30:40 PM »

That's true. You will have to beef up the rear end but you would have to anyway if you went v8. The tranny will take that all day though.

HiProfile · « **Reply #10 on:** February 14, 2012, 12:01:41 AM »

Don't like the ricer stigma with those "imports". Besides I can get a sc300 or 3-series for less than a 240/rx7/mk3 supra in the same condition. And they look better IMO.

I was thinking SC400, but didn't really look into the motor. 600wtq is really nuts for a stock block & MS. I think the main prob would be the tranny. Manual are basicly non-existant, and swapping to anything supra won't be cheap. Besides my friend lives/breathes LSX, and I know a lot of people who deal with GM-related trans & rearends.

I guess the real question is what sort of maintenance nightmares will I have with these two 10-15yr old cars? I'd presume the 1UZ will have aged a bit better.

HiProfile · « **Reply #11 on:** February 14, 2012, 12:10:21 AM »

WI + E30 = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ or RUST BUCKET

Last E30 I saw priced below 2k had a stripped engine, huge rust spots, and a convertable top with several holes in it. Sorry, not till I move down south.

snm95ls · « **Reply #12 on:** February 14, 2012, 04:08:04 AM »

Quote from: carkrazed on February 14, 2012, 12:04:45 AM

E30 + ls1 > e36 + ls1

Granted I haven't looked too deeply into it, but it seems like cramming 10 lbs of shit into a 1 lb bag. Lots of work to make the brake MC fit and function from the one swap I saw any documentation on.

I like the E30, but dislike the hipsters that drive them around my area.

dvst8r · « **Reply #13 on:** February 14, 2012, 10:13:30 AM »

Quote from: slappynuts on February 13, 2012, 11:18:36 PM

M50 + holset + sinktrap + chip tune = 500whp pretty easily.

LSx + cam + tune = 500whp pretty easily, add boost to it and we can see double that. There really is no comparison here.

I think you should put it in whatever you find on the cheap. Lsonechevelle's buddy Neil that did the cream dream, one of the guy's that is helping him build version 2.0 is doing an LSx into a bmw318, not sure what year, but so far it looks pretty pimp.

slappynuts · « **Reply #14 on:** February 14, 2012, 10:30:59 AM »

Quote from: dvst8r on February 14, 2012, 10:13:30 AM

Quote from: slappynuts on February 13, 2012, 11:18:36 PM
M50 + holset + sinktrap + chip tune = 500whp pretty easily.

LSx + cam + tune = 500whp pretty easily, add boost to it and we can see double that. There really is no comparison here.

I think you should put it in whatever you find on the cheap. Lsonechevelle's buddy Neil that did the cream dream, one of the guy's that is helping him build version 2.0 is doing an LSx into a bmw318, not sure what year, but so far it looks pretty pimp.

The cheapest way to 1000whp may still be the M50.

dvst8r · « **Reply #15 on:** February 14, 2012, 10:47:02 AM »

Quote from: slappynuts on February 14, 2012, 10:30:59 AM

Quote from: dvst8r on February 14, 2012, 10:13:30 AM
Quote from: slappynuts on February 13, 2012, 11:18:36 PM
M50 + holset + sinktrap + chip tune = 500whp pretty easily.

LSx + cam + tune = 500whp pretty easily, add boost to it and we can see double that. There really is no comparison here.

I think you should put it in whatever you find on the cheap. Lsonechevelle's buddy Neil that did the cream dream, one of the guy's that is helping him build version 2.0 is doing an LSx into a bmw318, not sure what year, but so far it looks pretty pimp.

The cheapest way to 1000whp may still be the M50.

So stock LQ4, flipped stock manifolds, BWS475 (even brand new they are only $600) or any other 75mm jy turbo, and a tune. Will get you to 1000 hp. Not sure how it could get any cheaper.

PhilStubbs · « **Reply #16 on:** February 14, 2012, 11:38:36 AM »

Cheapest way to 1000hp is probably 6.0L in a ragged out camaro. Next is probably supra. I don't see 1000hp being too easy with an M50. 700=easy, 1000= 2x as hard. That's my opinion though. I have done some research on boosted e36's but never tried it.

HiProfile · « **Reply #17 on:** February 14, 2012, 06:04:38 PM »

Then I guess the question is what's the best non-domestic RWD car to stuff a LSX into? I'm talking mainly price to make it still handle better than a camaro.

Bear in mind everything pre-90 is rotted out in WI, and most pre-95 is rusted & on it's way out.

pitobread · « **Reply #18 on:** February 14, 2012, 06:09:37 PM »

Quote from: HiProfile on February 14, 2012, 12:01:41 AM

Don't like the ricer stigma with those "imports". Besides I can get a sc300 or 3-series for less than a 240/rx7/mk3 supra in the same condition. And they look better IMO.

I was thinking SC400, but didn't really look into the motor. 600wtq is really nuts for a stock block & MS. I think the main prob would be the tranny. Manual are basicly non-existant, and swapping to anything supra won't be cheap. Besides my friend lives/breathes LSX, and I know a lot of people who deal with GM-related trans & rearends.

I guess the real question is what sort of maintenance nightmares will I have with these two 10-15yr old cars? I'd presume the 1UZ will have aged a bit better.

There are cheap way's and expensive ways to make it 5 speed. The transmissions you would be after would be either W series or R series out of Toyota P/U's or 80's/early 90's Supras

Expensive is he A1turbos R154 kit, 2k landed it is a cast bellhousing, flywheel, clutch& pressure plate and throw out/slave. the R154 is a MKIII Supra Turbo (86.5-1991?) and are a dime a dozen and can take some serious power. The guy's car that ran the dyno plot above uses that exact setup.

That said you can use an KS racing ebay bellhousing $479 shipped (they also have a bellhousing for the weaker W58/W57/W56 out of a N/A 85-1991 Supra and some trucks)
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1uz-1uzfe-toyota-Bellhousing-R154-gearbox-FREE-SHIP-/280825467673?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4162809319#ht_890wt_1156

Saab9000 hydraulic slave with stock auto bellhousing and a home made steel adapter for W58. Dirty cheap.

Stock Auto bellhousing with R150 truck tranny, adapter plate is from http://www.northwestfab.com/ Not sure its even listed on their site. Camaro Hydro slave. I think the adapter was $250ish.

Clutch and flywheel you can use a redrilled 3vze flywheel.

Do it.

LS1pwNzJ00 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 14, 2012, 07:53:14 PM »

Good luck making 500rwhp on a LS1 with a stock bottom end. Can be done but its far from cheap. ls6 or ls22 is a better starting point if you dont want to rip apart the bottom end. Things get expensive quick in the LSx world.

krazy4 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 14, 2012, 08:15:14 PM »

Quote from: LS1pwNzJ00 on February 14, 2012, 07:53:14 PM

Good luck making 500rwhp on a LS1 with a stock bottom end. Can be done but its far from cheap. ls6 or ls22 is a better starting point if you dont want to rip apart the bottom end. Things get expensive quick in the LSx world.

+1

Most cam only LS1's make around 400whp. Gonna take some serious heads to make 500whp with a stock bottom end.

1UZ's are dirt cheap and strong.

Minor Threat · « **Reply #21 on:** February 14, 2012, 08:45:36 PM »

pito,

That R150 adapter work with R154?

pitobread · « **Reply #22 on:** February 14, 2012, 09:02:34 PM »

I believe so, best to give them a call and find out though.

pitobread · « **Reply #23 on:** February 14, 2012, 09:07:36 PM »

Quote from: HiProfile on February 14, 2012, 06:04:38 PM

Bear in mind everything pre-90 is rotted out in WI, and most pre-95 is rusted & on it's way out.

Perfect for finding 1uz swap donors on the cheap.

HiProfile · « **Reply #24 on:** February 15, 2012, 05:00:10 AM »

Quote from: krazy4 on February 14, 2012, 08:15:14 PM

Quote from: LS1pwNzJ00 on February 14, 2012, 07:53:14 PM
Good luck making 500rwhp on a LS1 with a stock bottom end. Can be done but its far from cheap. ls6 or ls22 is a better starting point if you dont want to rip apart the bottom end. Things get expensive quick in the LSx world.

+1

Most cam only LS1's make around 400whp. Gonna take some serious heads to make 500whp with a stock bottom end.

1UZ's are dirt cheap and strong.

I apreciate the info, but I'm really curious what world you guys are living in. This thread wasn't even about the original motors, just the chassis.

The 1UZ's I have access to (ebay, as I'm midwest) are $1500+. I'd either have to rebuild one if I got a high-milage (cheap) car, or pay 2-3x more for a car to start with a low milage engine. The R154 trans is priced the same on ebay, but likely be much older than anything I'd stick on an LSX. I've seen LQ4's for under $500, and tranny options for under $1k.

I'd be doing a bit more fabbing & buying with the LSX vs electronics on the 1UZ (I'm good at both), but the 1UZ wouldn't be turn-key either. I'd still be pulling shit all apart & buying a clutch, doing more age-related maintenance (5-10yr older motor), getting a custom driveshaft, doing much more tuning using MS, etc - I can see this going on. If I went 1UZ/R154, an accident would cost 3x as much. All that for something with 1.3-2.0 litres less displacement that no local really knows jack shit about. Not only that but an iron block version is no heavier than a 2JZ or 1UZ.

At this point I have to once again mention I'm in the midwest. There is a machine shop 1 block from my house with an LSX motor all the time. My buddy had an ls1 makign mid 400's NA and high 500's with spray. He only toasted it with a nitrous mishap (full shot off idle), which spun 3 main bearings. Now it's fully built (by said machine shop) and pulling wheelies with $1k in turbo parts he built & tuned himself.

Stock 4.8L internals (shortblock) besides regapped rings. 1203hp:
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/hrdp_1109_stock_gm_ls_engine_big_bang_theory/

523hp 5.3l - stock longblock (at that HP), 150k miles, ching-chong turbo, NO intercooler:
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_1104_594hp_53l_gen_iii_small_block_for_3252/viewall.html

IMO the 1UZ is only useful to me if I sell it. The SC300/400 seems to be a much better option now that I've looked into it, but not because I'd keep the existing engine. In the end I see both needing just as much work but the LSX having more options and more power.

PhilStubbs · « **Reply #25 on:** February 15, 2012, 07:42:37 AM »

My only goal was to talk you out of putting it in a BMW. It doesn't hurt my feelings one bit if you want to stuff one in some 350z, is300, etc.

pitobread · « **Reply #26 on:** February 15, 2012, 08:59:01 AM »

Sorry, just trying to give you info, you kept asking questions or hinting at certain directions so I figured I would try to sway you. My mistake.

I still say throw whatever into a Lexus, just my .02 cents.

rawr · « **Reply #27 on:** February 15, 2012, 11:39:28 AM »

Mustang or put a v8 in an old porsche. SCs are lame and heavy, bmws are lame.

this thread is done.

HiProfile · « **Reply #28 on:** February 15, 2012, 01:42:31 PM »

Quote from: pitobread on February 15, 2012, 08:59:01 AM

Sorry, just trying to give you info, you kept asking questions or hinting at certain directions so I figured I would try to sway you. My mistake.

I still say throw whatever into a Lexus, just my .02 cents.

Hey I still appreciate it. I'm mainly looking LSX, since I have a 67 Firebirds I'm going to put one in anyways. I figured why deal with 2 types of motors.

Rawr if I wanted light RWD, I'd put a j35 into the rear of a Civic. It's main purpose will be semi-daily driving, with drag track duties on occation. I also want a car that isn't decades old or designed by some shitheads in Detroit, as I already have one of those.

random-strike · « **Reply #29 on:** February 15, 2012, 04:44:20 PM »

the cheapest way to get that much power and have a rwd v8 is to buy a mustang, after that... maybe a camaro or something

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Good idea/bad idea? (RWD V8 project)

Author Topic: Good idea/bad idea? (RWD V8 project) (Read 7232 times)