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[patsmx5]

buckling doesn't necessarily happen at TDC or BDC. Say 20* ATDC of the expansion stroke the forces acting on the rod are pretty high, and the rod is being loaded at an angle, not through it's centerline.

With miata engines, most DO fail from higher RPM. IT's been found that over 7500 can stretch the rods, and then they buckle. Many miata engines that are tore down for a rebuild that were reved to 7500+ are found to have at least 1 stretched rod. Several guys have pulled apart engines to find slightly buckled rods who had the revlimter around 7K and were running boost. Miata guys put down 250+ ft*lbs of torque on stock engines with turbo, some more.

FWIW my car (if I ever repace my failure of a turbo) will put out more torque than that, hopefully a decent amount more, and turn 8000 all day long on stock h22 rods, and I don't feel that there will be any issues of buckling or stretching... The machinist I had size them didn't see it to be an issue, and the ultra cool dude above who sold them to me didn't think it would be either. I doubt he was just trying to sling parts when he sold them to me since I had to hound him to ship them to me...

I think I'm to the point where I don't really know the direction this thread is going or what the point of this is anymore, if it's to debate the strength of my stock rods used In my motor, I'll just continue to beat it, I run It hard, Tom knows how I drive, and if we weren't trying to tear up back roads at midnight, more like noon, he would have seen my abuse to it more.. If they don't like it, they will exit stage right, and then that will tell me I didn't have enough rod.

Eagles would follow promptly...

I hear ya. I'm the same way. I'm around 300whp on a stock engine, and everybody "knows" that they will blow up after 250whp... Been boosted for 8 months and 10K miles. If anything, I want to turn the boost up some more. Buckling depends on the design of the rod and the rod ratio. Miatas are shitty'ly designed, so they will buckle between 300-350wheel torque with a perfect tune.

[bouncinofftherevlimiter]

just bought a f23 for this  :yes:  get some numbers yet?

what stroke is the f23? It's longer than the f22 isn't it? I know the f22 and h23 use the same crank, but unsure of f23, if the stroke is longer, which for some reason I think it is, i don't beleive it will work, can't say for sure though, never owned f23 or even cared to look anything up on them. I do know they have 55mm mains and 86mm bore, that's about it for my knowledge on them

I replied to the question about numbers a few posts ago....

I think the rod bolts would go way befor the rod. From what i have read if you take a b20vtec turn it 8000rpm everyday day in and day out. It will weaken the rod bolts  and rod bearings then cause the rod to fail. I have a friend that has a b20 vtec i have been tuning on. It is his only car he only turns it to 7000 on the street then when we go to the track he turns it 8500 we have had no problems out of it in 2 years. Then on the other hand i have a friend that turns his b20 up every day no matter what i tell him he has spun bearing in 2 bottom ends. I think detonation will break a rod faster than anything. Just think if your crank is pusing your piston up and detonation is pushing it down at the same time what presure is being placed on you rods.

I would agree with everything you said there.. Det. Is an animal, it does shit to parts I couldn't beleive possible...

[ashb82]

there is no way this will work on a f23 a f23 has a 97mm stroke a f22 has a 95mm stroke. You can bore the f23 out 1mm and use h22 pistons. you can also use a 98+ year model h22 with 55mm diameter crank in a f23
destroke the engine to a 2.2 with h22 crank rods and pistons.  The only reason you would want to use a f23 bottom end vs a h22 bottom end is h22 have frm sleeves. Frm sleeves will seize up forged pistons

[DmC]

I think detonation will break a rod faster than anything. Just think if your crank is pusing your piston up and detonation is pushing it down at the same time what presure is being placed on you rods.

Thats called preignition an engine can't take even one instance of that happening or it's game over.

[jarebear667]

there is no way this will work on a f23 a f23 has a 97mm stroke a f22 has a 95mm stroke. You can bore the f23 out 1mm and use h22 pistons. you can also use a 98+ year model h22 with 55mm diameter crank in a f23
destroke the engine to a 2.2 with h22 crank rods and pistons.  The only reason you would want to use a f23 bottom end vs a h22 bottom end is h22 have frm sleeves. Frm sleeves will seize up forged pistons

i know this, i had a built h22 525 whp

[bouncinofftherevlimiter]

just bought a f23 for this  :yes:  get some numbers yet?

there is no way this will work on a f23 a f23 has a 97mm stroke a f22 has a 95mm stroke. You can bore the f23 out 1mm and use h22 pistons. you can also use a 98+ year model h22 with 55mm diameter crank in a f23
destroke the engine to a 2.2 with h22 crank rods and pistons.  The only reason you would want to use a f23 bottom end vs a h22 bottom end is h22 have frm sleeves. Frm sleeves will seize up forged pistons

i know this, i had a built h22 525 whp

im hoping you are talking about the FRM part....

but yeah i thought the f23 wouldnt work for this....

[jarebear667]

f23 is steel liners correct?

[ashb82]

yes

[jarebear667]

i have 87mm je's laying around. or i will get .40 over evo 8's stroker or just run the bitch as is!

[bouncinofftherevlimiter]

i have 87mm je's laying around. or i will get .40 over evo 8's stroker or just run the bitch as is!

its not that easy, with stock crank and rods you need to determine the correct compression ht, or you might end up with the piston sticking way out of the bore, or way down in the hole. there is alot of figuring to do if you are so insistant on running the f23. the stroke and rod length are different, neither of those piston will just drop in.

FYI, .40 over is 10.14mm, or 94mm, same bore as my 450R

.040 over (which i thought you prolly meant) is 1.016mm, or 86mm..

[d112crzy]

F23 has the same compression height as the K20, 1.181. The stroker pistons are 1.130. Not as much as a difference as the F22's, but still quite a bit.

86mm storker pistons in an F23 would yield around 7.8:1 compression or so. Similar to vitaras I think.

[jarebear667]

yea im pretty much fucked and i did mean .040 over 87mm (stock h22)
the only way i can use the f23 is if i get the 55mm main h22 crank in it becuz of the 55mm mains in the f23 and i cant use h22 rods on an f23 crank becuz of the rod bore on the bearing side are different sizes from h22 to f23. fuck me i just wont get the f23.. too much farting around. i will look at different pistonoptions tonight tho.

[d112crzy]

You could use the stock rods, just like this guy did.

[bigdaddyvtec]

I'd recommend a good balancer. I think it's redstandardhatch (075 guy) that has an F22 in an EF, he had a few major issues with bearings until he got an ati or fluidamper.

he was using an unorthodox though... Im using an oem revving o just shy of 9k and dont have any issues... AND I KNOW that I beat the shit out of the slut harder and more frequently than 90 percent of the girls on this board.


Good luck trying to blow up the f i managed to fuck the ringlands up in number 4 but pulled it still running after beating it on 22 psi obly tuned to 15

[jarebear667]

f23 rods are smaller i think.  if im in it i just want it all done at once.

[d112crzy]

Smaller than what? You want to use an F23 don't you? Just stick with the stock rods and use the evo pistons.

[bouncinofftherevlimiter]

My rods are stock H22, not f, they are a different length, and alot stouter than the f rods...

[jarebear667]

My rods are stock H22, not f, they are a different length, and alot stouter than the f rods...

thats what i mean. the fs are shorter rods. and weaker.

[d112crzy]

The F22 rods are just about as "beefy" as the H22 rods. The F23 rods are definitely skinnier than both, so specify which F you're talking about when you say "f rods".

Either way, unless you want to push over 400whp, I don't think you'll have any issues with stock rods.

Sorry for thread jacking, I'll stop now.

[jarebear667]

sorry also. just trying to see what i want to do!

[DraginX]

have any numbers sir??

no dyno numbers, had it street tuned, and turbo is shit anyway. I'm getting another hx35 for now, and eventually stepping up to a 67mm.

Someday I'll strap it to the rollers and make a pull to see what it makes. Honestly to me it really dosent matter the numbers it makes, I just hope it pulls harder than the one next to me... Dynos are so subjective, and can be very misleading...

What size exhaust housing are you running? If you get another hx35 would you be willing to sell just the exhaust housing off your current turbo? Let me know in a pm if you will.

[E-b0la]

I'm not going to lie. I only clicked this thread because it said NSFW.

Other than than sick build.

[bouncinofftherevlimiter]

have any numbers sir??

no dyno numbers, had it street tuned, and turbo is shit anyway. I'm getting another hx35 for now, and eventually stepping up to a 67mm.

Someday I'll strap it to the rollers and make a pull to see what it makes. Honestly to me it really dosent matter the numbers it makes, I just hope it pulls harder than the one next to me... Dynos are so subjective, and can be very misleading...

What size exhaust housing are you running? If you get another hx35 would you be willing to sell just the exhaust housing off your current turbo? Let me know in a pm if you will.

maybe, im getting an he351ve, itll be here tomorrow. the current housing is 12cm

make me an offer, well go from there.

I'm not going to lie. I only clicked this thread because it said NSFW.

Other than than sick build.

its ok, sometimes i find myself doing that also... 

thanks! it makes me feel good when people compliment me on it, ive built everything to the car, except tuning, Sewell did that.

[ashb82]

he351ve hell yeah i love that bitch man it spools fast as hell. i just use a spring to control my vgt i sprung the  vgt close and i think as the exhaust presure goes up the vgt open up. all i know is the big ass snell spools like a t25 and 8 psi fells like 15psi on my 57 trim

[ratcityrex]

he351ve hell yeah i love that bitch man it spools fast as hell. i just use a spring to control my vgt i sprung the  vgt close and i think as the exhaust presure goes up the vgt open up. all i know is the big ass snell spools like a t25 and 8 psi fells like 15psi on my 57 trim

Thats good to know!!!

[bouncinofftherevlimiter]

he351ve hell yeah i love that bitch man it spools fast as hell. i just use a spring to control my vgt i sprung the  vgt close and i think as the exhaust presure goes up the vgt open up. all i know is the big ass snell spools like a t25 and 8 psi fells like 15psi on my 57 trim

im hoping it pulls harder than a 57 trim...


some updates since its been a while. the turbo is here, i tore it all apart and cleaned the shit out of it. it was one of the ones chrysler took up cause of the VGT locking up. ive been so busy doing all the stuff for my other race car i havnt had time to work on this car.

I do need some help with parts if anyone wants to hook a nog up.

i need a v band for the downpipe, and the v band flange (unsure of size, i think its like 3 1/8??) -4 oil feed line, -4 to 1/8 npt fitting, -4 to 12mm or whatever the feed line on the turbo is, and WMGT flange.

if anyone has any of this shit, id appreciate a nog hook up.


thanks

[jarebear667]

sooo!?   how did you mod your head for the drain?

[bouncinofftherevlimiter]

sooo!?   how did you mod your head for the drain?

i am confused by the question you are asking.... if you are talking about the drain in he f20 head that the f22 block does not have, then i got a bolt, but off the head and threads, (dont remember size) and siliconed it in.

so to update.....


the HE351 is in, i havnt gotten a spring in to hold the vgt back to allow the turbo to actually spool.... right now vgt wide open it makes 5lb, and is slow as fuck....

ash, what do you think the spring you used is similar to? i was thinking a screen door spring?? also where did you attach it?

pics to come next time im home...

[DmC]

Man the thing that sucks about finding a spring for something like this is ,that springs you can buy at the store suck you have to just keep you eye's open out in the world and snag the right one when you find it.

[bouncinofftherevlimiter]

i had a discussion with someone last night about how to control it, and i came up with what i was denied as semi-genius...

ill try to work more details out in my head before i share it..