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Author Topic: First RHMT Turbo Geo Prizm. 56k go find a sock.  (Read 23644 times)

kgx

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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2009, 05:42:58 PM »

interesting.. i know manning on mr2oc has most of the "stock" records on the 3SGTE. his motor is a freak of nature.. i don't even know if he's on this forum...

he's one of the only people on that board whose posts i look forward to reading. most of the other guys are just masturbating publicly. the guy without shoes is the worst- thinks he's jesus with a laptop.

i'll have to do a search for some of harry's posts here.. 
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Robb

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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2009, 09:51:23 PM »


he's one of the only people on that board whose posts i look forward to reading. most of the other guys are just masturbating publicly. the guy without shoes is the worst- thinks he's jesus with a laptop.


Ha ha thats funny.  Your one of the few intelligent mr2 owners.  Chris noshoes is a fucking wanker.  Harry has called him out a few times but the majority of the mr2 community thinks noShoes and douchebagwankerwhomadenemesis are gods or something, when neither of them could build a decent reliable high-power streetcar to save their lives.

Harry doesnt post on the net' much.  He's a phone talker. 

Where are you located btw?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 09:53:03 PM by Robb »
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rawr

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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2009, 10:42:55 PM »

Send me one of those adaptors immediately.  All mine are fail because I'm using hand tools.
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kgx

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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2009, 06:22:08 PM »


he's one of the only people on that board whose posts i look forward to reading. most of the other guys are just masturbating publicly. the guy without shoes is the worst- thinks he's jesus with a laptop.


Ha ha thats funny.  Your one of the few intelligent mr2 owners.  Chris noshoes is a fucking wanker.  Harry has called him out a few times but the majority of the mr2 community thinks noShoes and douchebagwankerwhomadenemesis are gods or something, when neither of them could build a decent reliable high-power streetcar to save their lives.

Harry doesnt post on the net' much.  He's a phone talker. 

Where are you located btw?


i'm in minneapolis. i'll probably end up in colorado eventually. i was on the other HMT since like '02 under a different name.

i looked through the MR2guru site and i'm actually very familiar with node's work. that guy is a fucking genius, i wish he still posted regularly on the forums. we had an interesting discussion on replacements for the 3sgte- namely the 2AZ and 2RZ/3RZ. his twin turbo 5VZ was a work of art :D

i agree on all counts with the other "guru" members. noshoes posted a build thread  (500WHP, how would noshoes do it?) where he openly pointed out that he was using rods he wasn't sure about. i made the mistake of asking him about it and he had a hissyfit and made fun of my honda ECU.

i was devastated. haha.

anyway, he finally posts a "500whp daily driver, how did noshoes do it" thread and in the first post he stated that he ran out of injector so he turned the boost down so it wouldn't blow up. i laughed my ass off. effectively, he DIDN'T do it. he built it with the wrong parts and turned the boost down so it would be reliable.

mr.nemesis regularly posts delicious little paraphrased niblets of most of the decent turbocharging books out there (mcinnis, a. graham bell, etc), under the guise that he's doing us all a favor by sharing "his" knowledge, and the people there eat it up.

the egos there are nearly unfathomable.

i like the guys like manning, node, orphan, mr2man, bruce H, ebaker..  genuinely decent guys who don't need to pad their egos with masturbatory posts.

Quote
Send me one of those adaptors immediately.  All mine are fail because I'm using hand tools.

email me. grue0038 at umn dot edu. i may have one or two left.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2009, 06:24:09 PM by kgx »
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Toysrme

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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2009, 08:32:56 PM »

node & weasy are cool

Robb

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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2009, 10:58:07 AM »

node & weasy are cool

Node is a good friend of mine, he lives here in Asheville. We've partied together many times.  He is very bright, and a stand-up guy.  His fence-post intake on his first v6 mr2 was a thing of beauty.

I have seen first hand the sort of work noshoes does, and quite frankly I wouldnt trust the dude to change my oil.  I mean, braging about building a 500hp daily driver?  Please.  The mr2 community has been brainwashed by those losers into thinking that no one else can build or tune mr2's.  Hell, Joseph has tuned one of noshoes' abortions that with Harry's touch and JD's tune, made 425hp and stopped because the owner decided it was too much for him past that, probably had alot more in it, but only made 325 with chris' tune. 

Mr. Nemesis tried to tell harry that 3S oil pumps dont fail.  I have a box full of them at the shop, and the cracked crankshafts to go with, that say otherwise.


Its weird like the mr2 people are too scaried to step up to either of them in fear that they will catch a ban-hammer or something.  Very Honda-Techish.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2009, 11:36:37 AM by Robb »
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crxvtec91

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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2009, 12:19:44 PM »

^^ I say we do a good old rhmt fourm war :evil:
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Toysrme

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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2009, 08:30:32 PM »

best friend had a >450awhp celica at one time.
he ate 2 oil pumps in his. first time he got away with it. parked it on the interstate and i got him on an 18' trailer. second time i couldn't get him and he tried to make it home. siezed that bitch about 10 miles down the interstate. sold his pistons to an MR2 guy

robb, the 2 big mr2 forums became a circle jerk quite awhile back. the names youve listed, all they are looking to do is sell people shit. afa noshoes, idk i dont play ith the i4's. i can tell you that i ran into afew problems ith people doing v6 swaps where they had talked to noshoes and he had giving them shit information about the process, end results & problems.




idk man, node is one of those guys i dont know personally & like many i had to question the existance of the 850hp 4runner. but time marched on and i cant name anyone whos played ith the toy-truck based v6's more so... i always gave him the benifit of the doubt. seemed cool, knoledgeable & always willing to go the extra mile to help people. its hard for me to remember, but he may have given me a set of stock 5vz-fe injectors for a friend one time. i kno someone did, seems like itwas him looking back. idk years go by and you forget shit.

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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2009, 02:38:31 AM »

Wait a minute here. I am turboing a 86 MR2 that has a 4AGZE converted to turbo. You all think it is possible to run a Honda ECU on it? As to the issue of the dizzy rotating opposite directions why not just swap the plug wires around on the cap?

Too the OP the 4AFE's came in several different iterations. The later ones are the best as they share the same crank and rods as the 4AGZE. If you really wanted to make big power you could use the 4AGZE shortblock and swap the 4AFE head onto it but I would just swap too the entire 4AGZE. Also some of the 4AFE's used a MAP sensor and others used the AFM. The Map is better of the 2 and would be best for the turbo swap. The early 4AFE's are only good for about 180hp and that is pushing them.

A Greddy Emanage Blue would work fine for you and finding them used are cheap. I have less then $150 in mine and it came with both Ignition and Injector harness's. Plus it can Datalog and there are programs that will self tune it for you, all you have too do is set AFR you are shooting for.

All a 4AFE is is a 4AGE bottom end with a AFE head on it. The cranks are 6 bolt. I think all pre 90 4AFE's are the 3 rib small rod versions and post 90 are 7 RIB large rod version. The wrist pins are 18mm on the small and 20mm on the large. The large version rods can handle 20psi. I would also get a thicker HG to lower CR. I think the 4AFE is .6mm (I know the 7AFE is) so you could use a 4AGE one that is 1.2mm. There is an eBay gasket set for the 4AGE that has one that is 1.75mm and that would work pretty good.

Post results.
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turbo4life

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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2009, 04:24:24 AM »

swapping plug wres wont fix anything on the issue of dizzy roatiaon backwards... it dosetn work like  that those timing sensors (magnetic pick up coils)   are there to measure the angel of the crank for fuel injectorn and timing work.

by having the dizzy spin the other way  the signals to the ecu will be  all backwards and the honda ecu wont really work


so by re repositioning  is a must to have the signals from the dizzy to the ecu in proper sequence and all.


and if you boost  that corolla motor  thos shits have composit head gaskets how well do they hold up to boost. i would not boost much on a motor with a shity gasket.  metal hg and studs is the way id go 

but some one chime in who knows.. how well they hold up.
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Robb

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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #40 on: August 30, 2009, 11:29:12 AM »

swapping plug wres wont fix anything on the issue of dizzy roatiaon backwards... it dosetn work like  that those timing sensors (magnetic pick up coils)   are there to measure the angel of the crank for fuel injectorn and timing work.

by having the dizzy spin the other way  the signals to the ecu will be  all backwards and the honda ecu wont really work


so by re repositioning  is a must to have the signals from the dizzy to the ecu in proper sequence and all.


and if you boost  that corolla motor  thos shits have composit head gaskets how well do they hold up to boost. i would not boost much on a motor with a shity gasket.  metal hg and studs is the way id go 

but some one chime in who knows.. how well they hold up.


The head gaskets can hold up fine to boost, just retorque the bolts and move on.  Stock 7m's have been posting 550+whp #'s on stock retorqued head gaskets.  No they are not better than metal, but they can work. Stock toyota hg torque is too low. Retorque em and dont knock, your hg will be fine. If it blows, replace it with another $5 gasket and spend all your $$$ on engine control. 

Wait a minute here. I am turboing a 86 MR2 that has a 4AGZE converted to turbo. You all think it is possible to run a Honda ECU on it? As to the issue of the dizzy rotating opposite directions why not just swap the plug wires around on the cap?

Too the OP the 4AFE's came in several different iterations. The later ones are the best as they share the same crank and rods as the 4AGZE. If you really wanted to make big power you could use the 4AGZE shortblock and swap the 4AFE head onto it but I would just swap too the entire 4AGZE. Also some of the 4AFE's used a MAP sensor and others used the AFM. The Map is better of the 2 and would be best for the turbo swap. The early 4AFE's are only good for about 180hp and that is pushing them.

A Greddy Emanage Blue would work fine for you and finding them used are cheap. I have less then $150 in mine and it came with both Ignition and Injector harness's. Plus it can Datalog and there are programs that will self tune it for you, all you have too do is set AFR you are shooting for.

All a 4AFE is is a 4AGE bottom end with a AFE head on it. The cranks are 6 bolt. I think all pre 90 4AFE's are the 3 rib small rod versions and post 90 are 7 RIB large rod version. The wrist pins are 18mm on the small and 20mm on the large. The large version rods can handle 20psi. I would also get a thicker HG to lower CR. I think the 4AFE is .6mm (I know the 7AFE is) so you could use a 4AGE one that is 1.2mm. There is an eBay gasket set for the 4AGE that has one that is 1.75mm and that would work pretty good.

Post results.

This entire post lends me to believe you have never built anything in your life, and have found all your "information" on mr2 forums.  There are a few members here who are running or have built 4a powered vehicles.  You havent, and it is very clear you dont know what your talking about.

I would never use emanage.  Absolute junk.
honda ecu, megasquirt, AEM FIC, MAF trans Pro, all MUCH better units.
You have been fed piss poor information, by people who lack experience or intelligence.

There has been quite a lot of speculation as to how much power X version of the 4A can handle.  I dare say you quoted your #'s from someone who has no clue what they are doing, since you stated its power restrictions in "psi" and not power.  Please dont bring that ignorant sort of thinking here.

Ribbed blocks are stronger, but the fools who claim to have split the three ribs (ive never seen pics) understand nothing about vibration from detonation, or the fact that small bore engines in general are sensitive to ignition timing changes (D-series anyone?) Idiots who break 4a's were using piggybacks and didnt have a clue what they were doing.

Basically, of your 10 posts so far, not one of them has been useful or technically inclined.  Also, you have failed to make a proper intro post, which is a banning offense here.  I suggest you get on board.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2009, 12:01:51 PM by Robb »
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89shithatch

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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2009, 10:17:47 PM »

turbo geo prizm is in the works. safc and some injectors is good enough for me. ill have pics up once i get enough done to make it worth taking pictures.
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Joseph Davis

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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2009, 11:40:41 PM »

Swap in 4ag 20v+ boost and run off honda ecu ;)

That's kind of hard to do since alpha-n is TPS based and boost requires MAP as load and there is no boost comp for alpha-n in anything Honda.  I could ask Calvin to support it in eCtune, it's really no different than a fuel or ignition correction vs bottle pressure for nitrous.

AEM FIC, or MAF Translator Pro would do the job very well on an older EFI or very early OBD2 vehicle.  I have little love for the E-manglage, all I ever get from them is noise on the sensor inputs.  I've had one SRT-4 turn out decently, and four abortion tunes on S2000 to Scion, thanks to E-Manglage.  No more, please.


i looked through the MR2guru site and i'm actually very familiar with node's work. that guy is a fucking genius, i wish he still posted regularly on the forums. we had an interesting discussion on replacements for the 3sgte- namely the 2AZ and 2RZ/3RZ. his twin turbo 5VZ was a work of art :D

Jim Persek's somewhat bright but has a very hard time finishing anything.  I think he's much happier since he got a mainstream job, sold off all his projects, and bought an Elise.  He has all of the cognitive faculties and latent abilities of any household name in the industry but he can't be bothered to put the time in he needs to in order to develop his skills because he doesn't like hard work.  In many ways he's like a c0mpl3x who can think but not do anything with his hands. 

You'll not find him posting on Toyota forums because that widebody V6 car of his was sold to a guy in the midwest, and promptly strapped to a dyno where it made less power than a stock Taco.  Self pwnage at it's best.  I kinda figured it was going to go that way when I asked for a ride in the car and he never got on it.

Just airing this out because Andrew Shinn from pgmfi.org was best friends with the guy who bought the widebody car, and I really don't care for the way he treated Wes Buckner.  We hold our own to a higher standard than that on this forum, why should we let it slide for those we know in real life?
« Last Edit: August 30, 2009, 11:45:25 PM by Joseph Davis »
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kgx

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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #43 on: August 31, 2009, 12:16:46 AM »

swapping plug wres wont fix anything on the issue of dizzy roatiaon backwards... it dosetn work like  that those timing sensors (magnetic pick up coils)   are there to measure the angel of the crank for fuel injectorn and timing work.

by having the dizzy spin the other way  the signals to the ecu will be  all backwards and the honda ecu wont really work


so by re repositioning  is a must to have the signals from the dizzy to the ecu in proper sequence and all.

the signal voltage is close enough with the dizzy spinning backward. VR sensors output the same signal regardless of the direction the tooth is approaching from.

you're right about the sequencing though. i repositioned the dizzy in mine so that spinning the wrong way, it still gets the CYP singal between 3 and 4. there's about half a tooth offset between the CKP and TDC sensors, and a slight offset on the CYP, but the only thing i've noticed weird about it is on the FTL with no load on the engine, it cuts very slowly. as soon as the engine loads up when i dump the clutch, it cuts like any honda engine does.

strangely enough, i had it set up wrong the first time i started it. i had the CYP lines up to cylinder 1 TDC, and it still ran, and ran surprisingly well. it also runs just fine without the TDC sensor, though it cranks a lot longer before firing.
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Robb

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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #44 on: August 31, 2009, 08:32:07 AM »

You'll not find him posting on Toyota forums because that widebody V6 car of his was sold to a guy in the midwest, and promptly strapped to a dyno where it made less power than a stock Taco.  Self pwnage at it's best.  I kinda figured it was going to go that way when I asked for a ride in the car and he never got on it.


Wrong car Joseph.  That widebody failure isnt the same car he's talking about.  I think he's refering to the black twin turbo car the dude from NY with too much money had Jim build. As I recall, dude bought it off ebay, had it sent to Jim, who built it and then sent it to the guy, who had never seen the car IRL.  Too much money. It made decent power as I recall but dont remember #'s.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2009, 08:37:25 AM by Robb »
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Joseph Davis

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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #45 on: August 31, 2009, 08:44:18 AM »

I know, Jim's widebody was a single china turbo car.

j.h.christ

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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #46 on: August 31, 2009, 09:18:22 AM »

Wait a minute here. I am turboing a 86 MR2 that has a 4AGZE converted to turbo. You all think it is possible to run a Honda ECU on it? As to the issue of the dizzy rotating opposite directions why not just swap the plug wires around on the cap?

Too the OP the 4AFE's came in several different iterations. The later ones are the best as they share the same crank and rods as the 4AGZE. If you really wanted to make big power you could use the 4AGZE shortblock and swap the 4AFE head onto it but I would just swap too the entire 4AGZE. Also some of the 4AFE's used a MAP sensor and others used the AFM. The Map is better of the 2 and would be best for the turbo swap. The early 4AFE's are only good for about 180hp and that is pushing them.

A Greddy Emanage Blue would work fine for you and finding them used are cheap. I have less then $150 in mine and it came with both Ignition and Injector harness's. Plus it can Datalog and there are programs that will self tune it for you, all you have too do is set AFR you are shooting for.

All a 4AFE is is a 4AGE bottom end with a AFE head on it. The cranks are 6 bolt. I think all pre 90 4AFE's are the 3 rib small rod versions and post 90 are 7 RIB large rod version. The wrist pins are 18mm on the small and 20mm on the large. The large version rods can handle 20psi. I would also get a thicker HG to lower CR. I think the 4AFE is .6mm (I know the 7AFE is) so you could use a 4AGE one that is 1.2mm. There is an eBay gasket set for the 4AGE that has one that is 1.75mm and that would work pretty good.

Post results.
i don't know the first thing about yota motors, and after reading that garbage i feel like i know even less. emanage? ebay gasket sets? seriously?

for fuck's sake, don't open your mouth to give advice to people unless you know what the fuck you're talking about.
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toyolla86

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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #47 on: September 02, 2009, 12:00:20 AM »

throw a bluetop 4ag head on. theyre practically free. solves dizzy and injector problem
go with 4age harness and msII.

dsm 450 plug right into that harness.

fuel lines and pump???? your on your own. i hear old school turbo 300z fuel pumps are a direct swap. bend up some of your own fuel lines. 
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turbo4life

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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #48 on: September 02, 2009, 05:52:33 AM »

re torque the stock head gasket sounds like a good free way of fixing the problem i like the ideal no  money spent on extra shit.  :yes:
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89shithatch

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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #49 on: September 02, 2009, 02:48:32 PM »

you guys are over complicating this. its a car with 235k. runs very well doesnt burn oil but its still a dated car. not looking for power. im just sick of seeing turbo hondas and feel like playing around with something i dont need to spend money on. battery is relocated to truck. ripped the a/c out. boost gauge is installed. also removed bumper foam/brace for the fmic that will be going on as soon as i can get one cheap. been looking into a diesel truck lately or a 4 runner to play with so i think the turbocharger can take the rest of the cars life away for all i car. safc some injectors and a cheap WB tune will be good enough. anyone in the madison/kenosha area feel like doing a decent WB street tune for some beer and cash?
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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #50 on: September 02, 2009, 02:52:45 PM »

not looking for power.


Then why bother turbocharging it?  Or even making this thread for that matter?  If you just wanted a simple setup, why bother asking?
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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #51 on: September 02, 2009, 02:56:14 PM »

because i can. and of course im looking for some power. but am i looking for 450hp out of a geo, no. it was a figure of speech. and i was just asking for info on  cheap tuning possibilites. ive had a turbo ef hatch i did a build on with s200b and blah blah blah just dont know much about lower budget tuning options.
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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #52 on: September 02, 2009, 02:59:41 PM »

Cheap doesnt always mean simple. If it were simple, everyone could do it.  :noel:
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toyolla86

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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #53 on: September 02, 2009, 03:32:10 PM »

yeah then just build it blow it and then post pics.
dont even ask for help.
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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #54 on: September 04, 2009, 12:52:03 AM »

Cheap doesnt always mean simple. If it were simple, everyone could do it.  :noel:

never said it was going to be simple. didnt you read where i said a WB and someone who has a clue on EFI tuning comes into place? im a diesel mechanic not a EFI guru like JD.
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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #55 on: September 04, 2009, 09:05:34 AM »

you guys are over complicating this.


never said it was going to be simple.


At this point im just twisting your words lol.

No but seriously, do you have a budget in mind?
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kgx

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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #56 on: September 10, 2009, 02:23:23 PM »

i'm still working on the design right now, but i think i may have come up with a daughterboard that can translate the denso 24+2 distributor signals into something the honda ECU can read.

that means the honda ECU could work with the stock dizzy. with a few add-ons to convert the ignition signal, it could be totally plug and play :D
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Joseph Davis

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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #57 on: September 10, 2009, 03:22:51 PM »

i'm still working on the design right now, but i think i may have come up with a daughterboard that can translate the denso 24+2 distributor signals into something the honda ECU can read.

that means the honda ECU could work with the stock dizzy. with a few add-ons to convert the ignition signal, it could be totally plug and play :D

Dave B was working on a box that could distribute, fabricate, and/or insert timing pulses, including ones didn't exist in the input signal.  Contact him at blundar at gee mail and he might share design, source, snippets, or absolutely nothing - but it never hurts to ask, right?

FYI you can do this neatly as a daughterboard solution, insert it in place of the vertical H1C1 card that intercepts the analog positioning sensor signals and converts them to digital signals.  This would allow you to send your 24+2 signal in through the existing circuitry and then output it as a digital signal going directly into IC10 which is a 74HC14 schottky/inverter that acts as a signal driver to the MCU.  I'd be inclined to use the H1C1 on your board to do the initial analog-digital conversion, but the Toy sensors might be a little off compared to the way the H1C1 is set up for.  A scope on the outputs going to IC10, bench powered ECU, and Toy distributor spun on your lathe tells all.

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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #58 on: September 10, 2009, 04:00:51 PM »

the toyota analog is backward compared to the honda, so i don't think HIC1 would work as well as a similar circuit. the only issue i can think of is that the ND distributors tend to be pretty noisy. i wonder if grounding the unused sensor would help eliminate some of that.

the reason i wanted to do a separate card is so i can add things to make it more plug and play- i.e. ignition inverter/clamp, cold idle circuit, TPS rescale, and possibly even P&H injector drivers.

dave's project sounds pretty cool though. for the honda community it may be a bad thing since the added demand might drive up the cost of OBD1 ECUs, but for everyone else it would be nice to just configure the triggers in some software to work with almost any engine.
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Re: toyota guys lefts talk 4afe.
« Reply #59 on: September 10, 2009, 04:32:18 PM »

Nah, don't worry about demand.  OBD1 Honda is dying off.  I've officially tuned more everything else put together than Hondas this year.  It'll be cool for a while like old carbed SBC were cool 10-15 years ago, but the train has pulled into the station at the end of the line and everybody's getting off.

Also, don't worry about Dave's project.  It's bottom of the pile compared to 2-3 others.
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