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[danwjmu]

Daniel Wilberger to sales
   
I'm looking for .030" thick copper sheeting for making head gaskets.
Do you stock that?  What is the pricing on that if so?

Also I think there is something wrong with your phones.  I called and
get a recording that says "Winchester Metals" over and over.

Thanks!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Daniel,
       I can get .032 soft copper sheets in 12" x 36" pcs. for
152.87/pc.


thanks,

Winchester Metals
www.winchestermetals.com
Phone: 540-667-9000
Fax: 540-665-2979

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Context:  I want to make some head gaskets for my mower.  $150 for a 1'x3' sheet of .032" copper.... wtf?  $20 a pop for retail head gaskets doesn't sound so bad now.

[deeznutts]

damn thats fucking crazy def better wit tha 20$ pre made shit

[deeznutts]

and this is for a mower?? damn must be some bad ass mower hahahaha i just got a 61/2hp murry for free but its a push mower but shits pretty small wat ya got??

[deeznutts]

gaddamn thats bad ass i had a friend that race karts back in tha day his shit would do damn near 100mph and ran on alky bad bitch fo sho

[patsmx5]

Surface the shit out of the head and deck and bolt it together with no gasket.

[patsmx5]

Yeap. Build one of those plates that holds the head on better too. The ones that strap the head onto the block.

[patsmx5]

The head thing helps keep it from distorting when loaded. Helps keep it from leaking especially if you aren't running a gasket. FWIW, you can get thinner sheets of copper. I used to have a roll of .010" copper shim metal. Made a headgasket for a 5 HP b&s with it a long time ago.

[patsmx5]

Helicoil the threads in the aluminum rods. All the flashing I've seen is aluminum or steel. I would only use it if you can find copper. Could O-ring it too if you know somebody with a mill.

[Joseph Davis]

Jesus Christ, Dullard.  Have you checked eBay?

http://cgi.ebay.com/C110-Copper-Sheet-027-20oz-x-6-x-12_W0QQitemZ360170603875QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item53dbd74563&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

http://cgi.ebay.com/C110-Copper-Sheet-027-20oz-x-10-x-12_W0QQitemZ350226238937QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item518b1c4dd9&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

http://cgi.ebay.com/COPPER-SHEET-PLATE-032-x-12-x-12-24-oz-PRIME-STUFF_W0QQitemZ310075774244QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4831f4d524&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

[patsmx5]

what RPM and power you looking for? What's it for? I wouldn't buy titanium shit unless you're just full of money. If you're looking for a little more RPM and worried about the valvetrain, make it lighter. I undercut the valves in my miata and before it would valve float around 7600, now i've hit over 8K with no float. All stock shit, just lighter.

[Joseph Davis]

what RPM and power you looking for? What's it for? I wouldn't buy titanium shit unless you're just full of money. If you're looking for a little more RPM and worried about the valvetrain, make it lighter. I undercut the valves in my miata and before it would valve float around 7600, now i've hit over 8K with no float. All stock shit, just lighter.

The 7.4 second (1/8th mile) SOHC that's been together forever uses Crower cam and springs, but stock retainers.  It doesn't make the good power past 8K but he revs it 8500-8800 sometimes to keep from falling out of his powerband on the shift.  The car has been together for *years* like that.

Keep in mind not all stock retainers are created equal *cough* K-series *cough*, but for some engines upgrading the springs and nothing else will also prevent float.

[Joseph Davis]

Spring design is critical, sir.  The spring doesn't have to be stiffer than stock, it just has to keep the valve from floating.  Also seat pressures = not the best way to go about it, that's caveman.  You can run a higher rate spring but set the seat pressures stock-ish and get a "little more" out of the head design before tearing free rockers.

Is there any way to make a top end girdle, the rocker shaft equivalent of a crank girdle?  That might beef things somewhat.

If the heads are a little weak like you are saying, then lightening everything might be an idea.  Do what Pat says and lighten the stock valves themselves.  Alternately, it's $300 for an asian tabletop 7X10" lathe, you can MAKE the aluminum retainers yourself for beans.


Now, excuse me while I go puke up my guts.  I am sick and want to die.

[patsmx5]

All I did to undercut and backcut the valve was chuck them in a cheap small drill press, spin them, and use a file to reshape them. I eventually used a dremel with a grinding stone as that was faster than using a file, then sandpaper to polish them. I probably reduced the weight by 8-10%. Could have done more, but I was in a hurry to get it back together. Lathe makes it go faster obviously.

I'm tellin ya', light weight is key. An aluminum retainer might not be as strong as a steel one, but since it weighs 1/3rd the weight of a steel one, there's less stuff reciprocating and the valve can shut quicker, and the retainer will see less force, so even though it's not as strong, it's stronger for the application.

[Joseph Davis]

I'm tellin ya', light weight is key. An aluminum retainer might not be as strong as a steel one, but since it weighs 1/3rd the weight of a steel one,

Weight for weight, aluminum is supposed to be ten times stronger than steel.  For a given part, though, it has to be bulkier to keep strength up.  Making aluminum parts to the steel part's dimensions = failure waiting to happen.

[patsmx5]

I'm tellin ya', light weight is key. An aluminum retainer might not be as strong as a steel one, but since it weighs 1/3rd the weight of a steel one,

Weight for weight, aluminum is supposed to be ten times stronger than steel.  For a given part, though, it has to be bulkier to keep strength up.  Making aluminum parts to the steel part's dimensions = failure waiting to happen.

steel is 3 times stronger than Al for a given size, but al is 3 times lighter for a given size. But it varies depending on the alloys of either metal. However, ultimate tensile strength is only one of many things to consider when selecting a material for an application. like the retainer sees a lot of internal shear stress, so you'd have to consider that when selecting a material.

[Toysrme]

aluminum sucks hind tit, you bend aluminum once, any more and it breaks. you can bend steel many times before it finally gives.

[Joseph Davis]

They both have their places, and uses.

[patsmx5]

aluminum has low strength and a low young's modulus compared to steal, and a shitty fatigue life too.

And yeah, I was saying aluminum can be stronger for a given application, but in the case of a retainer, I have no clue. Like you say if you make it the same dimensions it's not gonna work.

I've got a 15 HP briggs OHV with a 17.5HP carb on my 28" snapper that's governed to about 4800. About a month ago I was cutting grass with it that was over 1 ft. tall, and it had JUST stoped raining. Had the motor running wide ass open for over 1/2 the time. Burned a fucking exhaust valve. Haven't pulled it down yet......

[Joseph Davis]

http://www.mini-lathe.com/

[patsmx5]

http://www.mini-lathe.com/

Cute. Reminds me I need to get 3 phase power to run my 16x60 gear head metric/standard Clausing. Or a huge fucking 2 phase motor. Hard to find them though.

[Joseph Davis]

http://www.mini-lathe.com/

Cute. Reminds me I need to get 3 phase power to run my 16x60 gear head metric/standard Clausing. Or a huge fucking 2 phase motor. Hard to find them though.

What size three phase motor?

[dvst8r]

...Or a huge fucking 2 phase motor. Hard to find them though.

Can't say I have ever seen anything 2 phase, I wasn't even aware it existed. I know of single phase and 3 phase.

[patsmx5]

http://www.mini-lathe.com/

Cute. Reminds me I need to get 3 phase power to run my 16x60 gear head metric/standard Clausing. Or a huge fucking 2 phase motor. Hard to find them though.

What size three phase motor?

5-7 HP.

dvst8r- 220v. It's 2 phase, but commonly called single phse. I think split phase is the right term because of how the transformers are constructed.

[Joseph Davis]

Meh.

There are some veeeeeeeery inexpensive ($100 or less on eBay) single to 3 phase converting freq drives available, which would also let you change lathe speed without regearing the unit.  The sad part is I think the cutoff is 2 or 3 hp, and then the model line continues on into the higher power capacities without the built in phase converter. 

Allen-Bradley PowerFlex line, FYI, you can look into it further.   I'm pretty sure that it's due to the current limit on normal single phase wiring, but the technology is available and pretty cheaply... or it should be.  The savings is not always passed on to the customer.

[SgtB]

It's still single phase.

[patsmx5]

Meh.

There are some veeeeeeeery inexpensive ($100 or less on eBay) single to 3 phase converting freq drives available, which would also let you change lathe speed without regearing the unit.  The sad part is I think the cutoff is 2 or 3 hp, and then the model line continues on into the higher power capacities without the built in phase converter. 

Allen-Bradley PowerFlex line, FYI, you can look into it further.   I'm pretty sure that it's due to the current limit on normal single phase wiring, but the technology is available and pretty cheaply... or it should be.  The savings is not always passed on to the customer.

'
If I had to guess, you're talking about static converter that move the 2 phase 220V to 120* apart from each other by shifting each phase 30*. Those deliver only about 2/3rds of the power, and they blow out easy. Rotary converters are better, but $$$.

[Joseph Davis]

Meh.

There are some veeeeeeeery inexpensive ($100 or less on eBay) single to 3 phase converting freq drives available, which would also let you change lathe speed without regearing the unit.  The sad part is I think the cutoff is 2 or 3 hp, and then the model line continues on into the higher power capacities without the built in phase converter. 

Allen-Bradley PowerFlex line, FYI, you can look into it further.   I'm pretty sure that it's due to the current limit on normal single phase wiring, but the technology is available and pretty cheaply... or it should be.  The savings is not always passed on to the customer.

'
If I had to guess, you're talking about static converter that move the 2 phase 220V to 120* apart from each other by shifting each phase 30*. Those deliver only about 2/3rds of the power, and they blow out easy. Rotary converters are better, but $$$.

Uhm, no.  It's not a static converter.  It's an inverter drive, and can build any waveform that it needs to *correctly* without relying on clusterfuck hackjob analog phase shift gimmicks.

You should look into inverter drives, they're pretty fucking cool.  3 phase power, motor controllers, welders, telma brakes, etc. 

[patsmx5]

That wouldn't work worth a shit. They're too small and they're designed to increase the frequency, which is pointless. The machine has like 30 speeds by gear plus a variable drive on the motor already.

[SgtB]

There is no such thing as two phase in power transmission, only steppers. 240 is two single phases 180deg out of phase.  They are using neutral/ground as the other reference. The delta or wye  coil make three phase three phase, not the number of feeders. If you drop and one leg on three phase, you're back to single phase. AB AC BC. Let's say B pops, all you have is AC.

Motor controllers are usually referred to as VFD's but carry quite a few names. I drive motors as slow as 9hz at work. The neat thing is you can start them without in-rush and crank the torque way up while still using less power, or crank it up into half-wave and run the motor up to 300%. Some of the better ones let you wave-shape too. It takes the annoying hum out of them.

[patsmx5]

So if I have three legs that are 120* apart from one another that's 3 phase.
And if I have two legs that are 120* apart from one another that's single phase? Doesn't make sense.