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[dvst8r]

Even in diesels, once you have any mods, you start to need an external gate to control the boost. They seem to continue to make power to 48-50psi, but that is about as far as I would push them.

[Aero]

Figured I should make an update.
Finally making a bit of progress here.  The machine shop admitted their error and are going to take care of the stuff related to the spun bearing.

Unfortunately upon disassembly of the shortblock they found cracks in all 4 wiseco piston skirts.   At first the shop manager thought it was from detonation until I told him that was very unlikely given the very conservative tune, AFR's, Timing, boost, and E85 for much of the pushing the motor received.   Stock pistons would have taken the abuse these things took without breaking a sweat.   He went and looked at them himself confirmed for me that the cracks aren't in the typical area for ones caused by detonation.

Did a bit of research and it seems Wiseco had some 4g63/64 castings back when I bought them that have had this kind of problem. Just a casting flaw, or weak area.   So I got a hold of someone at Wiseco and if I send them the pistons and they verify that its not caused by detonation they are willing to get me a new set for 1/2 price. Which considering I've had them since 2003-2004 and they have 22k on them, sounds like pretty decent customer service to me.

So once they get them I have a few decisions to make.  I've been considering a bump in compression from the 8.3:1 these were to something higher since I will likely not be running this on anything but E85 most of the time.

So thats where she sits for now.

[crxvtec91]

Not bad of an update. Go with 9 flat for comp.

[Robb]

Not bad of an update. Go with 9 flat for comp.

Were this a big port head, I would disagree.  But small ports dont seem to knock like the big port heads do.  Slight combustion chamber differences. 

Aero, a question.  My cousin has a narrow-block 4g64 bottom end from a 96 galant I might be able to score, what is the going price for such?

Im building a small-port head/6-bolt block hybrid for the Colt now, just cause I got a sweet RVR intake manifold and I wanna spool the 14b at 1200rpms lol.

[patsmx5]

and I wanna spool the 14b at 1200rpms lol.

/miata.net

[Aero]

Not bad of an update. Go with 9 flat for comp.

Were this a big port head, I would disagree.  But small ports dont seem to knock like the big port heads do.  Slight combustion chamber differences. 

Aero, a question.  My cousin has a narrow-block 4g64 bottom end from a 96 galant I might be able to score, what is the going price for such?

Im building a small-port head/6-bolt block hybrid for the Colt now, just cause I got a sweet RVR intake manifold and I wanna spool the 14b at 1200rpms lol.

Are you comparing them with the same ECU mapping?  Is it the head itself or are you comparing them with the aggressive 1g timing map?

I have been thinking 9-9.3, thats what the only off the shelf wiseco piston that will fit my block is and is likely the range I'll use. Otherwise I've got to order custom was thinking about 10:1 but will probably go around 9. I'm not really concerned about knock anyway.  I'll be running E85 almost exclusively.

This is kind of an interesting thread showing the effectiveness of E85 in a 4G. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/323959-my-low-cost-high-compression-daily-driver-e85.html  12:1 compression 14psi on a stock G4CS bottom end.  E85 is fun stuff if you can get it. He was at high altitude though.

I'm not sure on the price for a 4g64 bottom end. I got mine out of a 94 galant from a salvage place, already pulled complete engine for $400.  That was back in 2003-2004. Thats the only experience I have.

The RVR I'm familiar with is similar to an Evo3 intake manifold.  Is this that one?  I'm semi looking for a "cyclone" intake manifold.  Really want one but I'm broke at the moment lol.

My 2.4 definitely spooled the Big 16g pretty quick.  IIRC 17psi at around 2500 rpm in 3rd. That was before I had the ability to tune, so who knows what would have happened then.  SAFC    That much lowend torque in a  colt sounds like no traction to me lol.

[Robb]

Not bad of an update. Go with 9 flat for comp.

Were this a big port head, I would disagree.  But small ports dont seem to knock like the big port heads do.  Slight combustion chamber differences. 

Aero, a question.  My cousin has a narrow-block 4g64 bottom end from a 96 galant I might be able to score, what is the going price for such?

Im building a small-port head/6-bolt block hybrid for the Colt now, just cause I got a sweet RVR intake manifold and I wanna spool the 14b at 1200rpms lol.

Are you comparing them with the same ECU mapping?  Is it the head itself or are you comparing them with the aggressive 1g timing map?

I have been thinking 9-9.3, thats what the only off the shelf wiseco piston that will fit my block is and is likely the range I'll use. Otherwise I've got to order custom was thinking about 10:1 but will probably go around 9. I'm not really concerned about knock anyway.  I'll be running E85 almost exclusively.

This is kind of an interesting thread showing the effectiveness of E85 in a 4G. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/323959-my-low-cost-high-compression-daily-driver-e85.html  12:1 compression 14psi on a stock G4CS bottom end.  E85 is fun stuff if you can get it. He was at high altitude though.

I'm not sure on the price for a 4g64 bottom end. I got mine out of a 94 galant from a salvage place, already pulled complete engine for $400.  That was back in 2003-2004. Thats the only experience I have.

The RVR I'm familiar with is similar to an Evo3 intake manifold.  Is this that one?  I'm semi looking for a "cyclone" intake manifold.  Really want one but I'm broke at the moment lol.

My 2.4 definitely spooled the Big 16g pretty quick.  IIRC 17psi at around 2500 rpm in 3rd. That was before I had the ability to tune, so who knows what would have happened then.  SAFC    That much lowend torque in a  colt sounds like no traction to me lol.

I dunno, all the 2g's ive tuned, regardless of what was used to tune them, didnt seem to knock as easliy as the bigport 1g heads.  Reading spark plugs mind you. I dont trust the knock sensors/system on dsms.

You wont see as big a power gain going from 9:1 to 10:1, as you would from 7.8:1 to 8.5:1. Combustion chamber shape, amongst other things.

Ive been wanting to give E85 a go in something, but there's only 1 pump in town and they could stop serving it at any time.

The RVR is the same as the evo3, except the TB port is 6mm smaller. Port it out and run a 1g 4g63 n/a TB, makes a nice combo.

Im not worried about traction. Limit straps and drag radials are my friends. Id like to take a shot at the csm fwd 14b record this summer, we'll see how it goes.

and I wanna spool the 14b at 1200rpms lol.

/miata.net

My LS integra spooled a s16g with my manifold at 2600rpm, boost threshold at 1500rpm w/ compressor surge. Watch me.

[HiProfile]

So once they get them I have a few decisions to make.  I've been considering a bump in compression from the 8.3:1 these were to something higher since I will likely not be running this on anything but E85 most of the time.

So thats where she sits for now.

Considering you're almost 10 octane points higher, I'd say at least try for 9:1. I know some people doing E85 in Hondas with >9.5:1 and lots of boost. I know of one guy with a simple piston/rod GSR at 9.8:1 who's daily-driving it at 16psi. That's with a fairly large borg-warner s256 with a .70ar housing. I don't think you need to get too high if you keep that holset. You've already got quick boost with that turbo, so compression would just me maximizing each pound of air you suck in.

I'd say go with those half-price OTS pistons and make sure you get the right bearings. :yes: BTW I'm excited to see any decent logs with the various a/r's if you keep that holset. My research has shown each halving of the A/R usually gets ~30% faster spool rpm, and it would be cool to have concrete info.

[Aero]

I'd say go with those half-price OTS pistons and make sure you get the right bearings. :yes: BTW I'm excited to see any decent logs with the various a/r's if you keep that holset. My research has shown each halving of the A/R usually gets ~30% faster spool rpm, and it would be cool to have concrete info.

That link I posted above he was running 12+:1 and 14lbs.

As long as the shop verifies that it doesn't need bored again I'll probably be going with the OTS 9-9.3's.  If it needs bored again then I will have to have custom ones made.   

As far as the Holset I'm definitely keeping it. I'm planning on hooking up my other 4 bar MAP so I can get some detailed backpressure logs with the turbo.

[Robb]

Wow dude.  I feel dumber for reading that thread.  The fucktard OP cut up a perfectly good cylinder head, because he "doesnt trust claying the motor", and when questioned about it replied "why? are they hard to get?"  What a dipshit.

When you have "dsm-tunars wiseman" telling people that cylinder pressures dont kill pistons, well. That just speaks for itself.

This has nothing to do with you or your build of course, I just wanted to point out that forum is full of idiots.

[SiFlyBy]

I remember reading long ago( in my DSM days) that the cyclone intake only flows 3 cfm more than a stock USDM 4G63 intake. I bought a cyclone engine for my 93 TSi back in the day and it didn't seem any different. Bushur has the intake shit dialed in for EVOs, Im sure they have a sulution for DSMs too.

P.S. hurry the fuck up and get you car back together


Chris

[Aero]

I remember reading long ago( in my DSM days) that the cyclone intake only flows 3 cfm more than a stock USDM 4G63 intake. I bought a cyclone engine for my 93 TSi back in the day and it didn't seem any different. Bushur has the intake shit dialed in for EVOs, Im sure they have a sulution for DSMs too.

P.S. hurry the fuck up and get you car back together


Chris

The cyclone intake is a dual runner intake.  It doesn't flow more up top, thats not the idea behind it. Although it should flow more than a 2g intake. It was put on the JDM 4g63's with the large port heads to help counteract the loss of torque from the large head ports.   The keep one closed off at low rpm or boost and it helps add quite a bit of torque down low from increased velocity and charge motion in the cylinder.  Many people say it helps spool the turbo also.

[SiFlyBy]

My TSi was pretty stock. I think you have good point and it may work better with a modded engine/VGT turbo.

BTW im working on the details for he351ve swap on my wrx

[Aero]

My TSi was pretty stock. I think you have good point and it may work better with a modded engine/VGT turbo.

BTW im working on the details for he351ve swap on my wrx

It only works if you actually actuate the butterflies correctly otherwise it definitely sucks.  People claim a 30+ ft/lb increase in torque. I will have to fill the bottom of the ports to match the 2g head ports too. It just fits in with the whole goal of the VGT turbo on the car.  A nice wide usable powerband with lots of torque. 

Looking forward to seeing that.

[SiFlyBy]

I have a whole spare engine for my TSi still( in a thousand pieces of course). Im pretty sure I sold the car with the cyclone intake, but i will double check my parts cause I would give you that shit for the price of shipping if I have it. 

[jarebear667]

shits looking good wonder if one would fit in my galant  :yes: haha i dont want to do half radiator either. but i might someday.

[HiProfile]

The whole idea behind spooling a turbo is making enough pressure in the manifold to create X turbine speed. Inrease V.E. for lower-flow (low rpm/psi), and you get more air/exhaust flowing through the head to add to that pressure. Same deal with cams - big cams reduce low-rpm V.E., and it's not surprising that hurts spooling. It's just that most people prefer a +10% increase in topend power over a +20% difference before boost.

For whatever reason the Honda dual-runner intakes either suck at topend, or the single-runner IM's are just that good [to make the dual-runners look bad]. They do add ~10% more power on a GSR before ~5k where they open, so they work in some regard. The few cases I've seen a GSR mani modded to replace an LS long-runner IM, it made a big increase in topend w/o any reduction in lowend.


I actually plan on modding a GSR IM to increase the long runners, decrease the short runners, and increase plenum size. That along with another contraption I'm making should help spool/response and still give decent topend.

[Aero]

I have a whole spare engine for my TSi still( in a thousand pieces of course). Im pretty sure I sold the car with the cyclone intake, but i will double check my parts cause I would give you that shit for the price of shipping if I have it. 

That would be cool man. 

The whole idea behind spooling a turbo is making enough pressure in the manifold to create X turbine speed. Inrease V.E. for lower-flow (low rpm/psi), and you get more air/exhaust flowing through the head to add to that pressure. Same deal with cams - big cams reduce low-rpm V.E., and it's not surprising that hurts spooling. It's just that most people prefer a +10% increase in topend power over a +20% difference before boost.

For whatever reason the Honda dual-runner intakes either suck at topend, or the single-runner IM's are just that good [to make the dual-runners look bad]. They do add ~10% more power on a GSR before ~5k where they open, so they work in some regard. The few cases I've seen a GSR mani modded to replace an LS long-runner IM, it made a big increase in topend w/o any reduction in lowend.


I actually plan on modding a GSR IM to increase the long runners, decrease the short runners, and increase plenum size. That along with another contraption I'm making should help spool/response and still give decent topend.

Most of the people who have run the DSM ones and set them up properly really like them. The reduction in topend seems to not be too much of a concern when compared to the fixed stock manifolds for the 4g63.  IMO the honda intakes are far better than the DSM ones so you are probably right about that. Which is why so many people go for the SMIM's on DSMs for extra topend.

[Aero]

shits looking good wonder if one would fit in my galant  :yes: haha i dont want to do half radiator either. but i might someday.

  I'm sure it could be made to fit. I've never seen a galant bay up close though.

[jarebear667]

shit gets tight up front. couldnt do what you did with a full face rad.  where in MN are ya?

[Aero]

shit gets tight up front. couldnt do what you did with a full face rad.  where in MN are ya?

 
Could try a half size radiator. I know some people have done them on DSM's without problems.

MN?  If that's meant for me I'm not in MN.  I'm in KS.

[jarebear667]

oh ahha for some reason i thought you were up there nvmd

[nock]

For whatever reason the Honda dual-runner intakes either suck at topend, or the single-runner IM's are just that good [to make the dual-runners look bad]. They do add ~10% more power on a GSR before ~5k where they open, so they work in some regard. The few cases I've seen a GSR mani modded to replace an LS long-runner IM, it made a big increase in topend w/o any reduction in lowend.

none of that is surprising, what rpm max torque happens has alot more to do with runner cross-section then runner length. i dont why oems fuck with this shit, maximum cruzing efficiency is more important than simplicity i guess? max torque wont change a whole lot unless you make the port bigger or smaller.

also, i got the actuator moving the other day, after i finish writing the control loop, i'll post some schematics and shit. http://www.realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?topic=10007.msg127066#msg127066

[Aero]

Wow I suck. Stupid I haven't got this thing running.

Hopefully have the old girl running in the next couple weeks. Stock 6 bolt, with a 2g head.

[crxvtec91]

Wow I suck. Stupid I haven't got this thing running.

Hopefully have the old girl running in the next couple weeks. Stock 6 bolt, with a 2g head.

No built motor?

[Aero]

Wow I suck. Stupid I haven't got this thing running.

Hopefully have the old girl running in the next couple weeks. Stock 6 bolt, with a 2g head.

No built motor?

Not for the moment.  Long story with wiseco  being gay. I'll have to explain later and show some of my own pics. Here is the basic problem though. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/371728-my-terrible-experience-wiseco.html

This engine will be temporary till I can afford another set of pistons unless they finally stop being homo.
When either happens this engine will  go into my first car, 90 gsx, or a colt if I can find one locally cheap enough.

[Aero]

Looking for a 4g63 cyclone intake manifold if anyone has one laying around.

[Joseph Davis]

Robb's best friend had two a year or so ago, Robb was tittering about it.  There's a good chance they're long gone, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

[Robb]

Robb's best friend had two a year or so ago, Robb was tittering about it.  There's a good chance they're long gone, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Your thinking of the 3 RVR manifolds.  They all went to ds-map guys. 

Dave W. proved the RVR>cyclone manifolds, Aero is just doing this for the fuck of it I think.

[nock]

noslow is still trying to unload a whole GSX engine and tranny, any takers.