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[j.h.christ]

get a new intercooler

[Joseph Davis]

get a new intercooler

[Urban Indian]

new end tank?

left one? ok

[Urban Indian]

and i found a FAL Fan for $50
1250cfm

[Joseph Davis]

That's like putting a bigger fan in a boiler room and then closing the windows, Levi.

You do not need a bigger fan, you need a path by which relatively cool air reaches the radiator.

[patsmx5]

Yeah, fan will help the car at idle. Once you're moving, forget the fan is even on. My fan used to run all the time. Now that I have shrouding, if I'm rolling below 65, the motor is <200*F and the fan is OFF. Do the shrouding first. If you do what I said, that will fix your coolant problems.

[snm95ls]

BUT its not like it ever overheats, it sits at around 215-220 degrees in stop and go and I dont like that. I want it to sit at around 180-190ish...

That is what bothers you?

How are you measuring the temperature?

Is this with the fan running?

You did say that you are running a 170 degree thermostat, correct?

Sounds like a lower temp fan switch might do the trick to me, but you may want to run that past the resident cooling system expert....

I do agree that the intercooler needs to be shit canned though.

[random-strike]

oil cooler = required
tstat = required
big whale penis fmic = not required.

225 = too hot.

[Joseph Davis]

oil cooler = required
tstat = required
big whale penis fmic = not required.

225 = too hot.

[snm95ls]

oil cooler = required
tstat = required
big whale penis fmic = not required.

225 = too hot.

Thermostat Opening Temperature
Starts Opening    169-176°F
Fully Open    194°F

I have some questions for the experienced.  (12+ years of actually working on them does not count)

When is the last time you saw the temperature drop all the way down to 170 degrees Fahrenheit then climb back up to the radiator fan switch set point?  On any car, not just a Honduh?

So you are telling me that the thermostat sees are ~30 degree Fahrenheit temperature swing while the rest of the engine stays at a relatively constant temperature?  If this is the case, one would have to assume that the coolant in outlet is seeing a much greater temperature swing.

Please enlighten.

Have any you fellas even ran a temp probe into the water neck (outlet hose side)  of a vehicle to see what the temperature of the coolant was doing?  I have, it was to see how far off a temp gauge was on a car.  I did not see this oscillation , that your theory infers, of outlet temperatures.  In fact it was quite steady.  It climbed until the fans came on, then dropped until they shut off.


According to service manual data, the cooling fan switch is closed(fan on) above 199 degrees F.  So, I was wrong about the lower temp fan switch as I thought that Honduhs had a switch point almost as high as older GM vehicles at ~235 degrees F.

[patsmx5]

Have any you fellas even ran a temp probe into the water neck (outlet hose side)  of a vehicle to see what the temperature of the coolant was doing? 

Yeap. Two before the thermostat.(thermostat between spacer and water outlet)

[rudebwoy]

I have mine mounted in the place of the bleeder valve on the water neck.

[Random Hero]

  You need to unblock the radiator of your otherwise perfectly functional cooling system, Levi.  THat big faggot penis IC is the LAST thing I'd have on a Civic, and it causes you obvious cooling problems for ZERO gain of a core half it's size.

He likes that big ugly uneccessary thing dough...

Another thing that helped Joshes dads car was when the bumper was off IF I remember correctly... read : Levi your big faggot FMIC Isnt helping you in one area as much as its hurting another.

Huh? No. We never ran the car long distances with the bumper off. we only took it off to clear the slicks while turning and we only did that for 1 race. It never overheated on the dyno/track/short distances.

[Passenger]

Thanks for the  's.

I'll add that those end-tanks on the IC are ridiculous. I suppose whoever made them is not familiar with Bernoulli.

Lol, you haven't the slightest clue.

[Joseph Davis]

The IC does completely block the radiator.  What say you?

[patsmx5]

Thanks for the  's.

I'll add that those end-tanks on the IC are ridiculous. I suppose whoever made them is not familiar with Bernoulli.

Lol, you haven't the slightest clue.

you bet

[dvst8r]

The IC does completely block the radiator.  What say you?

Last check, all full size, and hiway diesel trucks the intecooler completely covers the radiator.  

[Joseph Davis]

The IC does completely block the radiator.  What say you?

Last check, all full size, and hiway diesel trucks the intecooler completely covers the radiator.  

Irrelevant.  The trucks you use as an example are designed to have adequate airflow and are not ten pounds of shit in a five pound bag a la most aftermarket performance hoo-haa.

[Passenger]

The IC does completely block the radiator.  What say you?

I say, it doesn't matter. Levi needs the following things, as he SHOULD have these regardless of having an intercooler or not.
Radiator shrouding
A real radiator fan
A large oil cooler


* edit * Brett beat me to it, there have been plenty of vehicles manufactured at the oem level with full size intercoolers completely cover the rad, not to mention that all of these engines are no where near as cooling friendly as a honda open deck block.

[Passenger]

The IC does completely block the radiator.  What say you?

Last check, all full size, and hiway diesel trucks the intecooler completely covers the radiator.  

Irrelevant.  The trucks you use as an example are designed to have adequate airflow and are not ten pounds of shit in a five pound bag a la most aftermarket performance hoo-haa.

Its not just diesel trucks man, virtually all euro sports cars with fmic are this way. Sure levi's car is pushing more HP/l bla bla bla, I get it, his cooling system is not adequate for what he is doing right now the intercooler is NOT the main issue here.

[patsmx5]

Air can pass through a core, but not a wall of metal. There's a difference. I bet all the OEM vehicles you reference:

a-don't have two-foot long endtanks
b-don't have the end-tanks blocking 1/2 the radiator's core
c-don't have shit painted over them for bling

[Passenger]

Air can pass through a core, but not a wall of metal. There's a difference. I bet all the OEM vehicles you reference:

a-don't have two-foot long endtanks
b-don't have the end-tanks blocking 1/2 the radiator's core
c-don't have shit painted over them for bling

Sure they don't. But his car doesn't need full direct flow to the rad, what he needs is what I posted above. He has much bigger issues to contend with than his IC.

[snm95ls]

I have mine mounted in the place of the bleeder valve on the water neck.

That is nowhere near the thermostat.

Still you should be able to see a trend. Do you see temperature swings in the > 30° F range while the coolant in the block sees a relatively stable temperature?  Also, think about the location of the ECT and temperature sending unit.  They happen to both be in very close proximity to the water neck, aka the inlet for cooled coolant.  Why have I never seen these temp swings while datalogging while tuning?

[Joseph Davis]

The IC does completely block the radiator.  What say you?

Last check, all full size, and hiway diesel trucks the intecooler completely covers the radiator.  

Irrelevant.  The trucks you use as an example are designed to have adequate airflow and are not ten pounds of shit in a five pound bag a la most aftermarket performance hoo-haa.

Its not just diesel trucks man, virtually all euro sports cars with fmic are this way. Sure levi's car is pushing more HP/l bla bla bla, I get it, his cooling system is not adequate for what he is doing right now the intercooler is NOT the main issue here.

A stock single core half width radiator is perfectly suited to cooling his engine.  It is a flying tin can - there is no way to apply his hp per liter nonsense for a long enough period of time to stress the stock basemodel Civic CX cooling system. 

I'd put an oil cooler on it, and radiator shrouding may help not having to totally redo the system, but there's nothing more going on here than the radiator isn't getting any airflow.  100 mph airflow enters the IC, it's coming out at less than 11 mph on the other side.  That's the problem.

[patsmx5]

Air can pass through a core, but not a wall of metal. There's a difference. I bet all the OEM vehicles you reference:

a-don't have two-foot long endtanks
b-don't have the end-tanks blocking 1/2 the radiator's core
c-don't have shit painted over them for bling

Sure they don't. But his car doesn't need full direct flow to the rad, what he needs is what I posted above. He has much bigger issues to contend with than his IC.

If you read all my post in this thread, I have not once said he needs full flow, direct flow, or different end tanks to fix his overheating problem.

[Joseph Davis]

I have mine mounted in the place of the bleeder valve on the water neck.

That is nowhere near the thermostat.

Still you should be able to see a trend. Do you see temperature swings in the > 30° F range while the coolant in the block sees a relatively stable temperature?  Also, think about the location of the ECT and temperature sending unit.  They happen to both be in very close proximity to the water neck, aka the inlet for cooled coolant.  Why have I never seen these temp swings while datalogging while tuning?

Thermal transfer takes time, and when the engine is steadily putting out heat it's hard to get it to drop a full 30 degrees, also who says it's a 30 degree drop when the thermostat just wants to see some amount of drop?.  All the same, I have and do see temp drops when thermostats open on a number of different cars.  Despite the fact that Honda ECTs aren't a "fast response" type sensor. 

[Passenger]

The IC does completely block the radiator.  What say you?

Last check, all full size, and hiway diesel trucks the intecooler completely covers the radiator.  

Irrelevant.  The trucks you use as an example are designed to have adequate airflow and are not ten pounds of shit in a five pound bag a la most aftermarket performance hoo-haa.

Its not just diesel trucks man, virtually all euro sports cars with fmic are this way. Sure levi's car is pushing more HP/l bla bla bla, I get it, his cooling system is not adequate for what he is doing right now the intercooler is NOT the main issue here.

A stock single core half width radiator is perfectly suited to cooling his engine.  It is a flying tin can - there is no way to apply his hp per liter nonsense for a long enough period of time to stress the stock basemodel Civic CX cooling system. 

I'd put an oil cooler on it, and radiator shrouding may help not having to totally redo the system, but there's nothing more going on here than the radiator isn't getting any airflow.  100 mph airflow enters the IC, it's coming out at less than 11 mph on the other side.  That's the problem.

No, its not the problem, you smartasses are over thinking this.
The problem is not keeping things cool when moving, the problem is when the car is SITTING, as in no natural airflow going through the engine. IF his car was overheating while MOVING, when air is NATURALLY moving throughout the engine bay what you guys are arguing might have some relevance. But that isn't the situation.

Levi needs an large oil cooler with a fan, all aftermarket turbo'd vehicles should have one.
Levi needs radiator shrouding and a good fan, this is mandatory for good cooling while sitting. otherwise you are not getting effective airflow across the core of the radiator.

[Joseph Davis]

The IC does completely block the radiator.  What say you?

Last check, all full size, and hiway diesel trucks the intecooler completely covers the radiator.  

Irrelevant.  The trucks you use as an example are designed to have adequate airflow and are not ten pounds of shit in a five pound bag a la most aftermarket performance hoo-haa.

Its not just diesel trucks man, virtually all euro sports cars with fmic are this way. Sure levi's car is pushing more HP/l bla bla bla, I get it, his cooling system is not adequate for what he is doing right now the intercooler is NOT the main issue here.

A stock single core half width radiator is perfectly suited to cooling his engine.  It is a flying tin can - there is no way to apply his hp per liter nonsense for a long enough period of time to stress the stock basemodel Civic CX cooling system. 

I'd put an oil cooler on it, and radiator shrouding may help not having to totally redo the system, but there's nothing more going on here than the radiator isn't getting any airflow.  100 mph airflow enters the IC, it's coming out at less than 11 mph on the other side.  That's the problem.

No, its not the problem, you smartasses are over thinking this.
The problem is not keeping things cool when moving, the problem is when the car is SITTING, as in no natural airflow going through the engine. IF his car was overheating while MOVING, when air is NATURALLY moving throughout the engine bay what you guys are arguing might have some relevance. But that isn't the situation.

How is this at odds with my 10 pounds of shit in a 5 lb bag and inadequate airflow analogies? 

[Passenger]

The IC does completely block the radiator.  What say you?

Last check, all full size, and hiway diesel trucks the intecooler completely covers the radiator.  

Irrelevant.  The trucks you use as an example are designed to have adequate airflow and are not ten pounds of shit in a five pound bag a la most aftermarket performance hoo-haa.

Its not just diesel trucks man, virtually all euro sports cars with fmic are this way. Sure levi's car is pushing more HP/l bla bla bla, I get it, his cooling system is not adequate for what he is doing right now the intercooler is NOT the main issue here.

A stock single core half width radiator is perfectly suited to cooling his engine.  It is a flying tin can - there is no way to apply his hp per liter nonsense for a long enough period of time to stress the stock basemodel Civic CX cooling system. 

I'd put an oil cooler on it, and radiator shrouding may help not having to totally redo the system, but there's nothing more going on here than the radiator isn't getting any airflow.  100 mph airflow enters the IC, it's coming out at less than 11 mph on the other side.  That's the problem.

No, its not the problem, you smartasses are over thinking this.
The problem is not keeping things cool when moving, the problem is when the car is SITTING, as in no natural airflow going through the engine. IF his car was overheating while MOVING, when air is NATURALLY moving throughout the engine bay what you guys are arguing might have some relevance. But that isn't the situation.

How is this at odds with my 10 pounds of shit in a 5 lb bag and inadequate airflow analogies? 

Its not because it doesn't have anything to do with the problem.

[patsmx5]

Urban said the thing overheats in stop and go traffic. Which means some sitting, some low speed driving to the next light, etc. That's what HE said anyways. So that's what we've been going on.

I have a 20x12x3 core IC sealed to the face of my stock radiator, both behind the stock a/c condenser. So you can imagine i've got shit blocking airflow too. I have a 195*F thermostat, fans on at 200*F. From 195*F, it takes about 2 minutes of idling before it hits 200 and the fans come on, run for ~25 seconds to pull it down to 197*F, then it's off . If I'm at say, 199*F fans off and I pull away from a red light, in 20 seconds temps have fallen to 195*F again, and they won't go any lower. So if I do this and catch another red light, I'll be sitting there for 2 minutes before the fans even come on.

If he's driving and coming to a stop and it's already too hot, he has airflow problems.