Topic: should i trust shot peened rods? (Read 19009 times)

Spanish-rice · « **on:** May 14, 2009, 11:38:17 AM »

i cant get a set of shotpeened b16 rods for dirty dirty cheap and im wondering what kind of power i can trust them to? im looking at making well over 400 this year and just need peace of mind as this is car will probably see quite a few miles. ill get them for next to free or will it be worth it to just get some eagles or something?

crxvtec91 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 14, 2009, 11:51:10 AM »

Quote from: Spanish-rice on May 14, 2009, 11:38:17 AM

i cant get a set of shotpeened b16 rods for dirty dirty cheap and im wondering what kind of power i can trust them to? im looking at making well over 400 this year and just need peace of mind as this is car will probably see quite a few miles. ill get them for next to free or will it be worth it to just get some eagles or something?

Rods are super cheap, dont waste your time or money if you are going that big.

92CXyD · « **Reply #2 on:** May 14, 2009, 11:54:44 AM »

shot peened stock rods can not handle 400hp for very long.

chris · « **Reply #3 on:** May 14, 2009, 12:11:52 PM »

rods are so damn cheap and b16a motors are not

pretty easy answer

ratcityrex · « **Reply #4 on:** May 14, 2009, 02:07:43 PM »

Tunertoys

Spanish-rice · « **Reply #5 on:** May 14, 2009, 02:36:53 PM »

thanks guys i kinda figured this but ive never dealt with shot peened rods and if they were a sure thing i figured why not theyre next to free. but i know what im going to do now .

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #6 on:** May 14, 2009, 11:27:44 PM »

Rods are so damn cheap and B16 motors are pieces of shit.

Of the 600+ Honda motors I've tuned, B16s are the only sleeves I've cracked and the rate of failure is 50% of the cars that break 280 whp. Factor in how they all leak oil from the front left corner of the headgasket, have no bottom end, and are super small so they have a lot lower knock limit, buying a B18B block just makes sense.

turbob16hatch · « **Reply #7 on:** May 14, 2009, 11:42:11 PM »

not if you get a b16 bottom for free along with cheap as shit pistons

88dx · « **Reply #8 on:** May 15, 2009, 02:46:11 AM »

I wouldnt put rods in a B16 at 400whp Stock rods are stronger then you think, and you have to remember ur not going to be making any TQ. How many B-series rods have you seen break due to power

Ive seen a stock LS rod bend from a boost spike on a 500whp car but it didnt break.

caged · « **Reply #9 on:** May 15, 2009, 06:16:54 AM »

Quote from: 88dx on May 15, 2009, 02:46:11 AM

I wouldnt put rods in a B16 at 400whp Stock rods are stronger then you think, and you have to remember ur not going to be making any TQ. How many B-series rods have you seen break due to power Ive seen a stock LS rod bend from a boost spike on a 500whp car but it didnt break.

Yer but you would still want to use ARP rod bolts, and for a bit more $ you can get TT or Eagle rods that come with ARP bolts. I wouldnt risk a build because I went cheap on rods IMO.

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #10 on:** May 15, 2009, 07:09:26 AM »

I'd run forged rods with OEM rod bolts before I'd run stock rods with ARPs. Factory rod bolts are not weak, you will never see one let go.

Urban Indian · « **Reply #11 on:** May 15, 2009, 07:30:15 AM »

Quote from: 88dx on May 15, 2009, 02:46:11 AM

Ive seen a stock LS rod bend from a boost spike on a 500whp car

I wouldnt say my car was pushing that much. 450 maybe? but 500? thems iz ass dyno numbers

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #12 on:** May 15, 2009, 12:38:47 PM »

You can make 450 off stock LS cams?

dvst8r · « **Reply #13 on:** May 15, 2009, 02:02:37 PM »

Quote from: Joseph Davis on May 15, 2009, 12:38:47 PM

You can make 450 off stock LS cams?

LOL, or trapping under 120mph??

turbob16hatch · « **Reply #14 on:** May 15, 2009, 03:55:32 PM »

Quote from: Joseph Davis on May 15, 2009, 07:09:26 AM

I'd run forged rods with OEM rod bolts before I'd run stock rods with ARPs. Factory rod bolts are not weak, you will never see one let go.

you going to tell that to people with ls motors and there pussy rod bolts

ratcityrex · « **Reply #15 on:** May 15, 2009, 03:58:55 PM »

Dude its so much hype about rod bolts on hondas. Like JD said, show me 1 oem rod bolt failure. Ask leed about how well his 450whp stock b18 motor is doing with the stock rod bolts?

Quote from: Urban Indian on May 15, 2009, 07:30:15 AM

I wouldnt say my car was pushing that much. 450 maybe? but 500? thems iz ass dyno numbers

I would say probably closer to 325-350whp

turbob16hatch · « **Reply #16 on:** May 15, 2009, 04:01:31 PM »

yeah but are they or are they not smaller on the ls? that wierds me out and for $40-50 why not do it

ratcityrex · « **Reply #17 on:** May 15, 2009, 04:04:50 PM »

Quote from: turbob16hatch on May 15, 2009, 04:01:31 PM

and for $40-50 why not do it

Because for another $200 you can have rods & bolts that will handle over 500hp

turbob16hatch · « **Reply #18 on:** May 15, 2009, 04:08:01 PM »

kinda a big jump from $50 to $200+

hey i'm not saying it is better to run stock over upgrading to eagle's or w/e.

but for a budget build $50 is cheap peace of mind

ratcityrex · « **Reply #19 on:** May 15, 2009, 04:12:24 PM »

I got you man, Im not trying to be a dick, but for $50 thats all you a re getting is a peace of mind. Its unneeded is all im trying to say.

88dx · « **Reply #20 on:** May 15, 2009, 04:44:21 PM »

Quote from: Urban Indian on May 15, 2009, 07:30:15 AM

Quote from: 88dx on May 15, 2009, 02:46:11 AM
Ive seen a stock LS rod bend from a boost spike on a 500whp car

I wouldnt say my car was pushing that much. 450 maybe? but 500? thems iz ass dyno numbers

I wasnt talking about your car

88dx · « **Reply #21 on:** May 15, 2009, 04:46:05 PM »

Quote from: Joseph Davis on May 15, 2009, 07:09:26 AM

I'd run forged rods with OEM rod bolts before I'd run stock rods with ARPs. Factory rod bolts are not weak, you will never see one let go.

Have you ever seen ARP rod bolts breaK?? Ive never seen ARP rod bolts break or stock rod bolts.

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #22 on:** May 15, 2009, 05:35:03 PM »

Quote from: turbob16hatch on May 15, 2009, 04:01:31 PM

yeah but are they or are they not smaller on the ls?

What does that do with what they will or won't handle?

Based on the fact you have never seen or heard of a Honda rod bolt letting go, and cannot produce a picture of one that is broken (that wasn't caused without the bottom end siezing up first, in which case your rod is fucked even if the bolt holds, which not even ARPS do), I posit that you have better things to worry about when building an engine. A proper crankcase breather, for example.

turbob16hatch · « **Reply #23 on:** May 15, 2009, 06:07:39 PM »

i agree with there being more important things to do before tearing a motor apart to put in arp's.

But you can't say for sure they havn't failed, how do you really know they don't fail. and by fail i don't mean shatter into a bunch of peices.

you going to tell me next that oem bolts don't stretch?

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #24 on:** May 15, 2009, 06:30:45 PM »

I know because I go out of my way to look at engines that have come apart in order to identify causes, and design weaknesses. I've taken broken shit to people who know more than i do and have them teach me how to look at the wreckage and make sense of it. Lee Schwartz (pro-stock, stock car, formula atlantic, other), Paul Julius (import machinist, works on Indy Light cars now), Morgan (Morgan and Sons machining, circle track, 10.5 outlaw, builds BRMS' engines and now pretty much everyone in Asheville's since Paul went to the Indy Light gig), and a number of others.

Nope, OEM bolts don't stretch, just like everybody figured out 12 years ago. HT noise says otherwise.

chris · « **Reply #25 on:** May 15, 2009, 06:53:13 PM »

turbob16hatch · « **Reply #26 on:** May 15, 2009, 07:12:02 PM »

all i got to say is that seems far fetched to say they don't stretch when making considerable hp.

but then again this info is coming from the guy who said mini-rams boost creep

Spanish-rice · « **Reply #27 on:** May 15, 2009, 07:16:29 PM »

alright another question then. how much power would you assume a stock internal ls vtec could hold?

ratcityrex · « **Reply #28 on:** May 15, 2009, 07:18:49 PM »

how good iis the tune?

chris · « **Reply #29 on:** May 15, 2009, 07:26:21 PM »

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