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[jarebear667]

what mm are those pistons! im looking to do a f23 bottom end.  since my H took a dump and no point in redoing it w/o sleeves and im on the cheap this year.

[d112crzy]

How high are you revving it?

[ratcityrex]

Shitty to hear about your holset. Why no just buy a rebuilt kit from rons turbo service, and sent the wheels to him, and rebuild your turbo. It will be cheaper than buying a new one and your shits already built to this turbo.

[92CXyD]

Ok you can use Evo 8 pistons for these engines?

Awesome I may see if they are cheaper than the Mahls I was thinking of using.
I was given a good clean h23 engine the engine was rebuild at a engine builder shop in my town.
But they were supplied with h22 JE pistons ( that require resleeving) and eagle rods so the engine builder guys did not trust the setup so they stopped.
I aquired the motor, tranny, motor mount (for an EG), cv-axles (for an EG), wiring harness, p14 computer (I'll probably sell on egay), and turbo mani w/ the standard 5 bolt t3 done pipe (XS powa). All from a guy who wanted a d15b8/b7 and CX tranny in his sedan so he can drive his car again.

So if I get some weisco pistons like those being used in this build I can use them in my h23 right?

[d112crzy]

H23 is 87mm, f22 is 85.

You need to resleeve or use mahles on FRM sleeves(H series)

[92CXyD]

Damn I was hoping another cheaper route

[d112crzy]

cheap on H series=fail

[ashb82]

Glad to see you got it up running you got yours done before me so i sure you are the first to have a f22 with h22 rod 4g63 piston running. i have got so wound up trying to blow up my f22 i have put my engine on hold. but if it dont blow by winter i will put it in anyway. I have been boosting the stock f22 20 psi with my 57ar in 63ar ex turbonetics. i got a huge holset that i am putting on it this weekend if this dont blow it up i give up. I am going to the dyno cause i know the stocker is making stock engine record. for those of you that have never seen my build here is a link to it not to jack your theard or anything but i just cant tell you guys how much cheaper this is to do than using fordged f22 parts
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2546957
Also keep me up to date on how the lsd clutch does

[bouncinofftherevlimiter]

what mm are those pistons! im looking to do a f23 bottom end.  since my H took a dump and no point in redoing it w/o sleeves and im on the cheap this year.

85mm, i dunno if the crank is the same stroke. if the stroke is, i bet you could do the same build, but use the 86mm. you have to get evo 8 or 7 bolt dsm STROKER pistons, very important they are the strokers.

How high are you revving it?

tom has my rev limit at 8000, i havnt really revved it that high very much, with the turbo taking a shit it actually loses power cause boost is falling off. im running no signal to the wastegate, might as well not have one  ;D and it only will spike to 16 and then be down to like 6-8 at that high rpm, i shift it when it starts falling off, like at 6800-7000

Shitty to hear about your holset. Why no just buy a rebuilt kit from rons turbo service, and sent the wheels to him, and rebuild your turbo. It will be cheaper than buying a new one and your shits already built to this turbo.

tom and i discussed this, and he seems to think by now the way it is acting, it prolly is going to have a damaged shaft or something gay. it spools slow then all the sudden hits, like it is dragging or something then breaks free. im beginning to wonder if the previous owner ran it low on oil. i got it off h-t for 150... so im not suprised...

Ok you can use Evo 8 pistons for these engines?

Awesome I may see if they are cheaper than the Mahls I was thinking of using.
I was given a good clean h23 engine the engine was rebuild at a engine builder shop in my town.
But they were supplied with h22 JE pistons ( that require resleeving) and eagle rods so the engine builder guys did not trust the setup so they stopped.
I aquired the motor, tranny, motor mount (for an EG), cv-axles (for an EG), wiring harness, p14 computer (I'll probably sell on egay), and turbo mani w/ the standard 5 bolt t3 done pipe (XS powa). All from a guy who wanted a d15b8/b7 and CX tranny in his sedan so he can drive his car again.

So if I get some weisco pistons like those being used in this build I can use them in my h23 right?

they are evo 8 stroker pistons. that is actually irrelevent for you anyway, cause like stated after you cant use any forged pistons with the FRM, well you can but good luck with that..

Glad to see you got it up running you got yours done before me so i sure you are the first to have a f22 with h22 rod 4g63 piston running. i have got so wound up trying to blow up my f22 i have put my engine on hold. but if it dont blow by winter i will put it in anyway. I have been boosting the stock f22 20 psi with my 57ar in 63ar ex turbonetics. i got a huge holset that i am putting on it this weekend if this dont blow it up i give up. I am going to the dyno cause i know the stocker is making stock engine record. for those of you that have never seen my build here is a link to it not to jack your theard or anything but i just cant tell you guys how much cheaper this is to do than using fordged f22 parts
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2546957
Also keep me up to date on how the lsd clutch does

ash, all i can say is you are the man, i dont at all beleive you are thread jacking, you are the innovator of this build. mine may be running first but you assembled it first and did all the math. all my credit goes to you bud.

this is def. a shitton cheaper than f22 parts, and the dsm pistons have a hellatious ringland and the h22 rods give a much better R/S ratio. F22 parts are insane, although it looks like bisi has some decent priced stuff, i noticed that after i got all my parts.

ill let you know about the LSD clutch when i get it in... i put the shitty Egay one in casue i didnt have a new flywheel yet and i never really slipped on me so im going to run it till it wont take anymore.

[HiProfile]

I'd recommend a good balancer. I think it's redstandardhatch (075 guy) that has an F22 in an EF, he had a few major issues with bearings until he got an ati or fluidamper.

[ashb82]

I'd recommend a good balancer. I think it's redstandardhatch (075 guy) that has an F22 in an EF, he had a few major issues with bearings until he got an ati or fluidamper.

I am putting one on my build thats another part i plane on buying . redstandardhatch had a solid undampered pully when he was spinning bearings. if you read up on it you will find that solid pulley no matter what the brand are know for spinning bearings or cracking oil pumps

[Eggylshatch]

Sweet build man.  I saw on the HT thread that you have this in a civic-- I've been wanting to throw an f22 into an eg for a while.  What are your thoughts on that combo-- was it fun to drive NA?  Was it worth the extra work over a standard b swap?  I like the way that the f blocks carry torque when you boost them, and they seem pretty burly.  What are your costs like for this build?  And if you remember, what did it cost you to get the f22 into your civic?

[bouncinofftherevlimiter]

Sweet build man.  I saw on the HT thread that you have this in a civic-- I've been wanting to throw an f22 into an eg for a while.  What are your thoughts on that combo-- was it fun to drive NA?  Was it worth the extra work over a standard b swap?  I like the way that the f blocks carry torque when you boost them, and they seem pretty burly.  What are your costs like for this build?  And if you remember, what did it cost you to get the f22 into your civic?

mine is in an accord, if you look at the first post I made It shows pics of the car...

Never drove it n/a, it was boosted in every form. If I were to run it non turbo, I'd up the compression a shit ton, it would be pretty dismal in n/a form..

Mine was fairly cheap to build cause I shopped around and got lots of parts cheap or free. Swapping into civic would be fairly cheap. Mostly all you need over what I bought was mounts and axles, depending on where you shop reflects price.

[Eggylshatch]

shit sorry got confused between this one and the other guy's post on ht.  Definitely into it though-- my main concern about the f-series was always the cost of the internals, and the h22 rod/4g63 piston definitely fixes that.  Nice to see some innovation still-- solid work

[bouncinofftherevlimiter]

shit sorry got confused between this one and the other guy's post on ht.  Definitely into it though-- my main concern about the f-series was always the cost of the internals, and the h22 rod/4g63 piston definitely fixes that.  Nice to see some innovation still-- solid work

credit all goes to ash, he came up with it, i just duplicated it

[bouncinofftherevlimiter]

what part of PA are you from

NWPA, I'm in spring creek, by Erie.

Ask sewell about it, it's out there!

Why what's up? Planning a PA meet sometime?

[bouncinofftherevlimiter]

what part of PA are you from

NWPA, I'm in spring creek, by Erie.

Ask sewell about it, it's out there!

Why what's up? Planning a PA meet sometime?

lol, i'm about an 45 to an hour south from grove city

where at, I work down that way all the time, right now I'm just off exit 1 on 79. Mostly I spend my time in the uniontown or Washington area, and work wants me to move to this area, but I'm still up in the air about it, might just take the layoff..

[jarebear667]

have any numbers sir??

[bouncinofftherevlimiter]

have any numbers sir??

no dyno numbers, had it street tuned, and turbo is shit anyway. I'm getting another hx35 for now, and eventually stepping up to a 67mm.

Someday I'll strap it to the rollers and make a pull to see what it makes. Honestly to me it really dosent matter the numbers it makes, I just hope it pulls harder than the one next to me... Dynos are so subjective, and can be very misleading...

[patsmx5]

The stress (force)on the rods are greatest at the bottom and top of the stroke, which is caused by rpm(acceleration). The ignition occurs after Tdc, so the load caused by combustion is typically an after thought.

Sure, if you ignore buckling. Tensile loading at TDC of the exhaust stroke is the worst stress the rod will ever see. Highest compressive stress at BDC of the expansion stroke or at peak cylinder pressure. But the rod can buckle at a lower compressive load.

Sick build BTW

[sewell94]

The stress (force)on the rods are greatest at the bottom and top of the stroke, which is caused by rpm(acceleration). The ignition occurs after Tdc, so the load caused by combustion is typically an after thought.

Sure, if you ignore buckling. Tensile loading at TDC of the exhaust stroke is the worst stress the rod will ever see. Highest compressive stress at BDC of the expansion stroke or at peak cylinder pressure. But the rod can buckle at a lower compressive load.

Sick build BTW

  Buckling wasn't ignored, your trying to point out the exceptions.  If you read my post again it says typically in the statement.  Rods are rated by rpm.

[sewell94]

what part of PA are you from

NWPA, I'm in spring creek, by Erie.

Ask sewell about it, it's out there!

Why what's up? Planning a PA meet sometime?

  Its in the middle of nowhere, no cell phone service, and 1 working pay phone in his town.  Plus you have to watch out for horseshit from the amish buggies. 

[bouncinofftherevlimiter]

what part of PA are you from

NWPA, I'm in spring creek, by Erie.

Ask sewell about it, it's out there!

Why what's up? Planning a PA meet sometime?

  Its in the middle of nowhere, no cell phone service, and 1 working pay phone in his town.  Plus you have to watch out for horseshit from the amish buggies. 

You LOVE it! Bet you can't wait to come back up! Maybe I'll have my 450 back together by then.

Don't forget the 2 animals we hit, and I forgot to tell you I hit a deer on the way back to my apt. It was already dead and I fucking ripped it apart, there was blood, flesh, fur and shit all over. Didn't hurt the land yacht at all though.. She's a tank! Still smelled like death when I left thurs.

Typical day in spring creek....

[patsmx5]

The stress (force)on the rods are greatest at the bottom and top of the stroke, which is caused by rpm(acceleration). The ignition occurs after Tdc, so the load caused by combustion is typically an after thought.

Sure, if you ignore buckling. Tensile loading at TDC of the exhaust stroke is the worst stress the rod will ever see. Highest compressive stress at BDC of the expansion stroke or at peak cylinder pressure. But the rod can buckle at a lower compressive load.

Sick build BTW

  Buckling wasn't ignored, your trying to point out the exceptions.  If you read my post again it says typically in the statement.  Rods are rated by rpm.

It's not just an exception. You made no mention of it, so I did. Perhaps with hondas yall don't have that problem typically, but a lot of mazdas running 3x factory power on stock engines bend and buckle rods all the time.

[bouncinofftherevlimiter]

The stress (force)on the rods are greatest at the bottom and top of the stroke, which is caused by rpm(acceleration). The ignition occurs after Tdc, so the load caused by combustion is typically an after thought.

Sure, if you ignore buckling. Tensile loading at TDC of the exhaust stroke is the worst stress the rod will ever see. Highest compressive stress at BDC of the expansion stroke or at peak cylinder pressure. But the rod can buckle at a lower compressive load.

Sick build BTW

  Buckling wasn't ignored, your trying to point out the exceptions.  If you read my post again it says typically in the statement.  Rods are rated by rpm.

It's not just an exception. You made no mention of it, so I did. Perhaps with hondas yall don't have that problem typically, but a lot of mazdas running 3x factory power on stock engines bend and buckle rods all the time.

from what I have seen the factory Honda parts in the the b, h, and f are very stout. I havnt really heard of them buckling, but moreso the rod bolts letting go or the rod snapping around the big end.

Hopefully someone will chime in and provide more input. I don't have a lot of experience with these motors, but I'm speaking from what I have seen and heard from others.

[sewell94]

It's not just an exception. You made no mention of it, so I did. Perhaps with hondas yall don't have that problem typically, but a lot of mazdas running 3x factory power on stock engines bend and buckle rods all the time.

  I would bet that the guys that are buckling the rods are turning more rpms than stock, and buckling a rod is def the exception to the norm, it doesn't happen often, you just happen to be into that exception.  Even still Buckling the rod occurs at TDC (like i said before, forces greatest at top and bottom of stroke)

[patsmx5]

buckling doesn't necessarily happen at TDC or BDC. Say 20* ATDC of the expansion stroke the forces acting on the rod are pretty high, and the rod is being loaded at an angle, not through it's centerline.

With miata engines, most DO fail from higher RPM. IT's been found that over 7500 can stretch the rods, and then they buckle. Many miata engines that are tore down for a rebuild that were reved to 7500+ are found to have at least 1 stretched rod. Several guys have pulled apart engines to find slightly buckled rods who had the revlimter around 7K and were running boost. Miata guys put down 250+ ft*lbs of torque on stock engines with turbo, some more.

[bouncinofftherevlimiter]

buckling doesn't necessarily happen at TDC or BDC. Say 20* ATDC of the expansion stroke the forces acting on the rod are pretty high, and the rod is being loaded at an angle, not through it's centerline.

With miata engines, most DO fail from higher RPM. IT's been found that over 7500 can stretch the rods, and then they buckle. Many miata engines that are tore down for a rebuild that were reved to 7500+ are found to have at least 1 stretched rod. Several guys have pulled apart engines to find slightly buckled rods who had the revlimter around 7K and were running boost. Miata guys put down 250+ ft*lbs of torque on stock engines with turbo, some more.

FWIW my car (if I ever repace my failure of a turbo) will put out more torque than that, hopefully a decent amount more, and turn 8000 all day long on stock h22 rods, and I don't feel that there will be any issues of buckling or stretching... The machinist I had size them didn't see it to be an issue, and the ultra cool dude above who sold them to me didn't think it would be either. I doubt he was just trying to sling parts when he sold them to me since I had to hound him to ship them to me...

I think I'm to the point where I don't really know the direction this thread is going or what the point of this is anymore, if it's to debate the strength of my stock rods used In my motor, I'll just continue to beat it, I run It hard, Tom knows how I drive, and if we weren't trying to tear up back roads at midnight, more like noon, he would have seen my abuse to it more.. If they don't like it, they will exit stage right, and then that will tell me I didn't have enough rod.

Eagles would follow promptly...

[jarebear667]

just bought a f23 for this  :yes:  get some numbers yet?

[ashb82]

I think the rod bolts would go way befor the rod. From what i have read if you take a b20vtec turn it 8000rpm everyday day in and day out. It will weaken the rod bolts  and rod bearings then cause the rod to fail. I have a friend that has a b20 vtec i have been tuning on. It is his only car he only turns it to 7000 on the street then when we go to the track he turns it 8500 we have had no problems out of it in 2 years. Then on the other hand i have a friend that turns his b20 up every day no matter what i tell him he has spun bearing in 2 bottom ends. I think detonation will break a rod faster than anything. Just think if your crank is pusing your piston up and detonation is pushing it down at the same time what presure is being placed on you rods.