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[89shithatch]

Started out over 3 years ago with a clean 1990 ef that i did a mild build and turbocharged. had fun with that.Parted it out, and the block ended up tossing a rod on the dyno the week after i sold it. Did the whole school thing got a job etc. Still in the pay off bills from school mode and love turbocharging and dont feel like waiting so im deciding to turbo my daily driver.Car has a shit ton of miles but still runs very well and is healthy. does burn a small amount of oil but nothing thats going to keep me from messing with it. Plan on doing an almost complete junkyard/Rhmt build to keep costs low. Progress will be added as soon as its done. Im kind of taking it slow since it is my daily and i find myself pretty busy during the week.

Vehicle: 1996 geo prizm 4afe.
Mileage:238k
Plans for car: t25 turbocharger, supra injectors, safc, custom ic piping, ebay manifold (unless there is a better quality/cheaper route, open down pipe, etc etc. Dont plan on making an ass load of power cause i know a 4afe wont. just a daily drivable turbocharged geo that will end up being towed home from GLD when i get the "some boost is good so more has to be better" attitude on some hungover sunday. anyway enough with babbling onto the slow progress i have made.


Front mount. Free


Battery relocation to trunk. 50.00 total. Ran 2/0 loomed cable. Overkill, i know. oh well.


Boost Gauge. HF. 20.00. Works Great. couple zip ties and a drill and shes mounted.


Rice Muffler. Found it on the ground at the junkyard. couldnt pass it up. 10.00


Some of the IC piping. old intake piping from various cars. 10.00 maybe for a bunch of pieces. i have some laying around from previous builds that should be enough.


glory shot of the engine. clean for almost 240k. all Stock except for my free intake. haha.


condom wrapper i saw with some sand in my trunk. the geo is a panty dropper.


My old EF that i shoudl have kept. pry rotting away in some ally somewhere now.

more will be added as soon as i can get ahold of more free/junkyard parts. will be doing piping from IM to Ic tomarow so ill get pics up asap.

a/c has also been completly removed except for the evap. the bumper support has also been removed. the bumper is back on also.

[Robb]

I made a bunch of piggyback hate threads on ohmt in referance to anything small bore toyota. I don't feel like repeating myself except to say you need ign. Timing control if you want to make more power than a minivan for more than five minutes.

Meh.

[crxvtec91]

Swap in 4ag 20v+ boost and run off honda ecu

[That Guy]

Swap in 4ag 20v+ boost and run off honda ecu

Does it matter which way the distributor spins? Thought toyotas spin the dizzy backwards?

[t_cel_t]

Swap in 4ag 20v+ boost and run off honda ecu

Does it matter which way the distributor spins? Thought toyotas spin the dizzy backwards?

toyota to honda dizzy adapter

[Robb]

The honda dizzy will read backwards.  There's a thread on PGMFI forums about that very subject.  Go search for it.  Suffice to say it works 10x better than the factory toyota failure ecu.

[rawr]

how old is your geo?

[AstroVannin]

AEM F/IC ??

Has fuel and timing control.... not expensive.

[crxvtec91]

AEM F/IC ??

Has fuel and timing control.... not expensive.

Honda ecu/ wiring harness is cheaper if you do it your self!

[TTC]

A buddy of mine ran his 4afe for 2 years at 10psi with nothing but an fpr lol.

[ApexSilver06MR]

i ran my 5efe-T 14b car at 10 psi for a few years off of a safc and a msd dis2

toyota motors are good for 250 to the wheels on stock blocks. 


boost that pos. 

[That Guy]

The honda dizzy will read backwards.  There's a thread on PGMFI forums about that very subject.  Go search for it.  Suffice to say it works 10x better than the factory toyota failure ecu.

Nice, thanks much. Also, is it boosted yet?

[AstroVannin]

I was running like 15psi on my stock 3E-E with gangster setup... Celica 315cc injectors and an SAFC .. thats it.

Held together well until I parted it out.

[89shithatch]

how old is your geo?

obd2. im looking for something to control fuel very cheap. not looking for insane amounts of power. im just sick of turbo civics. i am gathering parts currently and wil be installing in the next few weeks. turbo geo is something i havent seen before. any ideas on whick junyard injectors i can run?

[Robb]

how old is your geo?

obd2. im looking for something to control fuel very cheap. not looking for insane amounts of power. im just sick of turbo civics. i am gathering parts currently and wil be installing in the next few weeks. turbo geo is something i havent seen before. any ideas on whick junyard injectors i can run?

AEM FIC has my vote.

Do you have the oval connectors on your injectors or the squarish bosch style? 

[92CXyD]

He should have oval since most of those engines came with Denso type inj's. ;D

[t_cel_t]

yeah they should be the oval ones

[AstroVannin]

Yeah ... oval injectors.....

See if you can get some blacktop 440's (N/A 3g Supra) or Celica (GT-S with the 3SGE) greentop 315's

Neither set will be expensive.

Just shave the little tabs off the sides of them and use the existing injector plugs.

[89shithatch]

i already know im not getting it fully tuned. so you think some celica injectors and safc shoudl suffice for 8 psi? anything else fuel related i should loook into?

[Robb]

Yeah ... oval injectors.....

See if you can get some blacktop 440's (N/A 3g Supra) or Celica (GT-S with the 3SGE) greentop 315's

Neither set will be expensive.

Just shave the little tabs off the sides of them and use the existing injector plugs.

Black top 440's came from the turbo 7mgte mk3 supras.  Im sure you meant that.

8psi with an safc should be fine, provided your engine is in decent shape and you tune with a wideband and not off the tip of your hat.

[AstroVannin]

Yeah ... oval injectors.....

See if you can get some blacktop 440's (N/A 3g Supra) or Celica (GT-S with the 3SGE) greentop 315's

Neither set will be expensive.

Just shave the little tabs off the sides of them and use the existing injector plugs.

Black top 440's came from the turbo 7mgte mk3 supras.  Im sure you meant that.

You're right ...totally miseed the mark on that one.  I was thinking of somthing else. You think Id remember that, Ive had like 3 sets of the fuckers.

.... shit. I was thinking of the NA ones since that, and a MR2 2bar map,  was the "setup" to boost a 5SFE on the stock ECU .. at least that's what Burien Toyota said they used.

The n/a ones are 365cc or somthing no?

[Robb]

Yeah ... oval injectors.....

See if you can get some blacktop 440's (N/A 3g Supra) or Celica (GT-S with the 3SGE) greentop 315's

Neither set will be expensive.

Just shave the little tabs off the sides of them and use the existing injector plugs.

Black top 440's came from the turbo 7mgte mk3 supras.  Im sure you meant that.

You're right ...totally miseed the mark on that one.  I was thinking of somthing else. You think Id remember that, Ive had like 3 sets of the fuckers.

.... shit. I was thinking of the NA ones since that, and a MR2 2bar map,  was the "setup" to boost a 5SFE on the stock ECU .. at least that's what Burien Toyota said they used.

The n/a ones are 365cc or somthing no?

Its really not important.  Different literature says different flow rates at the same pressure, so I generally ignore Denso's whitepapers.  Close enough is close enough.

Personally, I feel toyota really dropped the ball on engine management in the late 80's early 90's as honda was YEARS ahead (and still is) in that department. The stock toyota stuff was Denso's attempt to rip off Bosch and get away cheap, but the design was obsolete before it hit the ground. 

Id rather have CIS than stock toyota computer. Ouch.

[AstroVannin]

Id rather have CIS than stock toyota computer. Ouch.

AGREE .. OEM toyota engine managment is mad weak. I didnt realize it till I got a Honda though.

[kgx]

Swap in 4ag 20v+ boost and run off honda ecu

Does it matter which way the distributor spins? Thought toyotas spin the dizzy backwards?

a VR signal looks the same no matter which direction the tooth approaches the sensor. the only way to reverse waveform of a VR signal is to reverse the polarity of the sensor.. incidentally, this is why the 24 tooth wheels in toyota dizzies won't work. the polarity of the sensor is reversed (well, actually it's normal compared to every other OEM, honda is actually backwards) and the sensors in the dizzy all share the same ground, so they can't be rewired to work.

my vote goes to the honda ECU. i've been running my MR2 turbo on CROME for 3 years now. i used a honda distributor mounted in the 3SGTE head, but i'm working on crank triggers so i can get rid of the dizzy and run wasted spark DIS (or COP if i can afford a good CDI).

the toyota sensors are all compatible with the honda ECU, too.

the toyota ECUs are quite good for what they are- a barebones engine management box. the code in them is really tight and there's nothing superfluous within them.but that being said, the honda stuff is 100% superior to them in every way. driveability is better on a half-tuned honda ECU than the stock ECU anyday.

an easier way to do it would be the GM '7730 or '7749, since you would only need a single crank trigger installed. the $59 code has closed-loop wideband AFR control, as well as autotune, so it might be a very easy setup comparatively.

neither one is rocket science to set up though.

[crxvtec91]

Swap in 4ag 20v+ boost and run off honda ecu

Does it matter which way the distributor spins? Thought toyotas spin the dizzy backwards?

a VR signal looks the same no matter which direction the tooth approaches the sensor. the only way to reverse waveform of a VR signal is to reverse the polarity of the sensor.. incidentally, this is why the 24 tooth wheels in toyota dizzies won't work. the polarity of the sensor is reversed (well, actually it's normal compared to every other OEM, honda is actually backwards) and the sensors in the dizzy all share the same ground, so they can't be rewired to work.

my vote goes to the honda ECU. i've been running my MR2 turbo on CROME for 3 years now. i used a honda distributor mounted in the 3SGTE head, but i'm working on crank triggers so i can get rid of the dizzy and run wasted spark DIS (or COP if i can afford a good CDI).

the toyota sensors are all compatible with the honda ECU, too.

the toyota ECUs are quite good for what they are- a barebones engine management box. the code in them is really tight and there's nothing superfluous within them.but that being said, the honda stuff is 100% superior to them in every way. driveability is better on a half-tuned honda ECU than the stock ECU anyday.

an easier way to do it would be the GM '7730 or '7749, since you would only need a single crank trigger installed. the $59 code has closed-loop wideband AFR control, as well as autotune, so it might be a very easy setup comparatively.

neither one is rocket science to set up though.

Got pic's?

[kgx]

dizzy modifications:





since the dizzy spins backwards, you need to line the CYP sensor up so that the signal occurs between TDCs of cylinders 3 and 4 for the reverse rotation. i forget off the top of my head how it changes, but i think it's like 180* out of phase or soemthing like that.





$4 GM oil vapor separator catch can from a quad 4:

[kgx]

pinouts for genII and gen3 3SGTE to PGMFI:

www.apexology.com/files/schematics/3SGTE_to_PGMFI.xls

the 'yota pin names are the same for any model. it is possible to wire the honda distributor with the CKP-M, CYP-M and TDC-M wires combined at the distributor and run through a single, shielded wire to the ECU (use the G- pin in the toyota harness).

they do have some weird names for some of their circuits. the fuel pump relay, toyota calls the "circuit opening relay, and is the FC pin in the factory wiring diagrams ("fuel control." on a comical note, one of the more revered engineers on the MR2 boards used to preach left and right that this was the "fuel cut" pin that was responsible for cutting fuel on overboost. needless to say, engineers can be and often are 100% wrong. don't let their "education" tell you otherwise.)

VSS signals are the same between the two makes. there are really only 2 VSS frequencies out there- 2000ppm and 4000ppm (pulse/mile). most squinty-eye-type cars are 4000ppm. all you have to do is change the gear corrections in crome to whatever your speed (in km/h) at 8k rpm would be for the first 4 gears.

the toyota idle solenoid is the same as the OBD2 3-wire idle solenoids used on some civics (rotary solenoid as opposed to the OBD1 plunger). the trick to using it is to either ground the coil that closes the valve, or install a MOSFET with the drain connected to the coil, source to ground and gate connected through a 270ohm resistor to the coil that opens the valve. in the oem ECU, the signals are inverted between the coils- when one is energized, the other is not. this results in very precise valve control.

the only issue with these type of valves used with the OBD1 ECU is that the rotary solenoids bypass enough air to be used as the cold engine fast idle, so they have no external FITV. i just installed an OBD1 FITV and routed it to the intake manifold, using the coolant lines that previously went to the throttle body.

i think most folks would be surprised how similar the honda and toyota lumps are in terms of tuning. the 3SGTE started right up on a slightly tweaked B18c map and drove better than it ever did on  the 3SGT ECU.

[Robb]

Nice car guy.  Mr2 Guru is on this forum, he holds the horsepower record for a stock cam 3sgte, 413 corrected.

[kgx]

manning?

[Robb]

No, Harry Davis aka Mr2Guru.

That one dude who claimed like 427 or whatever couldnt produce a dyno sheet.