Topic: Decapping WRX injectors (Read 238052 times)

HiProfile · « **Reply #60 on:** November 20, 2011, 11:39:56 PM »

For what it's worth, rock auto has lots of remanned injectors for $150 a set that open up past 700cc. They also cross-reference what injectors they're used on in case you happen upon a cheap local sale.

12mm o-ring:
tC 330->6??cc
rx8 380/420->620/750cc
older wrx baby blue 440->820cc
newer wrx dark blue 565->1040cc

14mm o-ring:
RSX 310->520cc
spec-v 310->6??cc
rdx 440->8??cc

ATM I'm hooked on Honda bike injectors. They're the same (short) size of WRX injectors, and fairly large. They're plentiful and very cheap. I hope to get some better flow numbers in 2 weeks.

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #61 on:** November 21, 2011, 09:38:12 AM »

Honda bike injectors are either WRX style, or a 25mm shorter flavor of tC/RAV4/Highlander 2AZ core. I guess the tC gets the purple cores like the RAV4 and are 330cc? Because the greens are 370cc.

HiProfile · « **Reply #62 on:** November 21, 2011, 10:29:52 AM »

Maybe so, I haven't tested them. But all the limited info I've seen is 330cc for the greens I have. 370cc would be even better.

BTW I figure even those 25mm shorter CBR injectors would fit if they had extensions. It seems the 06+ bikes have them, but only in the plastic fuel rails. The metal rails contain the longer style. The other oddballs are the 03-04 600rr secondaries, which are wrx-size but have a weird cone on their body. It can be ignored or probably filed/machined off.

Right now I have both blue-green styles - the full body and the stepped body.

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #63 on:** November 21, 2011, 11:52:39 AM »

The greens I have came out of some 2AZ that was sent to drop into a Highlander we did a motor swap on. The Highlander had the exact same core in purple, so we retained those and I kept the greens. I remember it not being the "correct" engine as Crazy Dave was bitching to high heaven that he had to swap over a bunch of stuff to make it bolt in, including the front cover IIRC. Anyway, 370cc, did them same day all at once with a bunch of other injectors, pretty sure my numbers are right buuuuuut we've all seen my injector bench.

The stepped CBRs are the same length as the true barrel CBRs are the same length as dist Honda injectors.

crxvtec91 · « **Reply #64 on:** November 21, 2011, 12:07:39 PM »

I have a set of blacks that are from the 900+cbr, short/ black in color.

PhilStubbs · « **Reply #65 on:** November 21, 2011, 12:15:31 PM »

I don't have anything productive to add(i just want to subscribe to this thread)except, don't take the tip off of cobalt ss injectors. You have to just remove material from the screen area. If you decap them like all of the others, they won't close.

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #66 on:** November 21, 2011, 12:48:08 PM »

Das has decapped a similar tipped (different body) core, looks like ragged ass. He only sent me single injectors instead of a set so I couldn't compare flow rates (which is MORE important than single injector static flow) so they sit here until Mr. Evans drops by to pick them up for him. Also, the Bosch cores that FIC900/ID1000/Bosch Motorsports sells are NOT anything I'd modify the tips of unless I had Passenger's machine shop, and then it's a huge waste of time to use that sort of equipment for being cheap. Pencil the hard tipped Bosch cores as top of the list un-decappable, followed by the Cobalt barrels and "ribbed" body Bosch cores used by Ford/GM (early 5.4 Triton/SN99 pre-blower Cobra 24#, LS1, etc). You can decap the latter but flow quality is for shit.

I'm really not feeling decaps at all, you can get them rich enough to support impressive power but the part throttle residues on the ceramic look like trash. Putting them into a motor is like feeding an olympic athlete McDonalds and thinking it's the way to win.

I do, however, like these sexy ass orange 08+ CBR600 airbox injectorators I have sitting here. Haven't flowed them yet, but they look like solid MPG units.

PhilStubbs · « **Reply #67 on:** November 21, 2011, 01:25:23 PM »

I'm with you on decapping, seems fine for a super budget race car, but something you are dumping a little cash into or drive a bunch could benefit from $300 injectors.

I can't wait to try these cbr injectors I have on the mpg crx.

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #68 on:** November 21, 2011, 05:28:29 PM »

Perfect for a GRM challenge car, IMO.

HiProfile · « **Reply #69 on:** November 21, 2011, 06:30:17 PM »

For next year I'll try to get some duplicate CBR's into a supercharged car and see what all changes - power, throttle response, mpg, etc. As for bosch EV6's, I think the only viable solution is to redrill the holes. They also seem to have a 70* spray pattern when decapped, which sucks for Hondas. In the same sense the smaller densos suck, since they have a narrow spream similar to lucas disc-types. I did notice they seem to increase by a similar amount (>250%), so maybe it depends on the core.

Despite their decapped spray angle, I did find a simple way to decap Bosch injectors. Make a simple ficture (aluminum block) with a hole the injector nozzle can rotate in, then have a slot that a dremil bit rests on at a 45* angle. Definately not for people who can't do fine work like soldering.

PhilStubbs · « **Reply #70 on:** November 21, 2011, 08:05:16 PM »

Quote from: Joseph Davis on November 21, 2011, 05:28:29 PM

Perfect for a GRM challenge car, IMO.

yup, that was the plan. the $100 850's from fuel injector clinic worked out well though

Metalbob · « **Reply #71 on:** December 12, 2011, 08:53:58 PM »

anyone know of a good place to get some pigtails for the blue injectors? I saw them on ebay but they look kind of chinsy.

HiProfile · « **Reply #72 on:** December 12, 2011, 09:41:21 PM »

Most bikes (honda, yamaha, etc) use the same style. They won't be clean, but they will last longer than your modified motor. And they're cheap.

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #73 on:** December 12, 2011, 10:14:01 PM »

90s Toyota, topfeed WRX, Nissan. bmotorsports.com, look for the Sumitomo connector.

PhilStubbs · « **Reply #74 on:** December 13, 2011, 07:48:42 AM »

You have already gotten more than you deserve follow the rules for an answer. Intro post stat!! And not a Honda-tech intro post, a porn infused intro post.

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #75 on:** December 13, 2011, 09:14:40 AM »

I have removed all traces of n00b faggotry from this perfectly good tech thread.

HiProfile · « **Reply #76 on:** December 15, 2011, 08:18:26 PM »

So I got some new cores to play with today. I took a risk on the Bosch EV14's (aka ID style). They were like densos to decap, except a smaller tip.

Anyways I ground them at an angle like ID does, and they punched out from ~250cc (24lb) to 705cc @43.5psi!

They still mist like crazy and don't spray a wide cone like EV6's. The down side is they're 14mm seals, but they still fit if you double up 12mm o-rings. I'll definitely be working on more, so I'll probably cut the ends down for 12mm rails.

Edit: In case you nogs don't know, EV14's have two integrated internal filters (screen and filter). The T1/other adapters have filters because people bitch about not having replacable filters.

HiProfile · « **Reply #77 on:** December 17, 2011, 12:26:28 AM »

The guy I got these from said he'll sell me 10 more sets. This will be a great x-mas.

robus · « **Reply #78 on:** December 18, 2011, 06:33:06 AM »

What about the Denso from the gtr35, can they be decapped? Stock flow supposedly 570cc.

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #79 on:** December 18, 2011, 07:08:38 AM »

That's a Denso 12 hole injector. I'm not sure what the stepped body variant flows decapped. Not sure I'd decap on anything that wasn't a GRM or other junkyard build... if you have a few bucks there's nothing wrong with grabbing a core like that and turning up the fuel pressure. They deal with higher pressures similarly to the Bosch Motorsports cores that ID and FIC resell.

PhilStubbs · « **Reply #80 on:** December 18, 2011, 08:24:02 AM »

That seems like a great street car injector as is. Great atomization for idle and mpg and will support plenty of power for street use

HiProfile · « **Reply #81 on:** December 18, 2011, 03:01:10 PM »

Quote from: robus on December 18, 2011, 06:33:06 AM

What about the Denso from the gtr35, can they be decapped? Stock flow supposedly 570cc.

If you can get them cheap, do it. The Subaru blues start at 565cc and decap to around 1025cc, and I bet they're the same besides o-ring size and the molded lugs.

JD the ball of the smaller and disc design of the larger densos seem to atomize just fine. ID's cores are basicly decapped injectors, and it's a large ball design. They'll still have far better atomization than an old pintle-style EV1. Hell DSM's had directional caps that create large droplets and idle 1.5L motors fine.

robus · « **Reply #82 on:** December 18, 2011, 04:07:09 PM »

Yep, just bought 6 of them for 140$. So I was thinking, I can get two more and decap them if I want to go that way later on.

HiProfile · « **Reply #83 on:** December 18, 2011, 04:48:09 PM »

I'd suggest you decap all 6, spend $10 per to flow them, then use the 4 closest matched injectors.

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #84 on:** December 18, 2011, 10:01:42 PM »

Quote from: HiProfile on December 18, 2011, 03:01:10 PM

JD the ball of the smaller and disc design of the larger densos seem to atomize just fine.

There is a difference between seems and does.

Quote from: HiProfile on December 18, 2011, 03:01:10 PM

ID's cores are basicly decapped injectors, and it's a large ball design.

Basically, as in not exactly? Do tell.

HiProfile · « **Reply #85 on:** December 18, 2011, 11:54:37 PM »

Have you seen the difference in spray pattern with your own eyes? Tuesday I'll toss on a capped denso, a decapped ball-style denso, a decapped disc-style denso, and a decapped EV14. I'll take some vids, then we can see who's "basically" wrong.

I guess the better question is how many cars have you delt with that ran decapped injectors that were matched? Besides ID's of course.

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #86 on:** December 19, 2011, 07:26:53 AM »

Yes I've seen it, I've flowed a few sets myself if you remember. I've also run them in cars, tuned them on a dyno, and then read the plugs afterwards. The Bosch Motorsports units may or may not be a precision core that can be decapped - IDK as I've never touched a set to do that to them- but the Denso is a reasonably approximate core with a precision cap.

HiProfile · « **Reply #87 on:** January 07, 2012, 12:10:19 PM »

Quote from: robus on December 18, 2011, 04:07:09 PM

Yep, just bought 6 of them for 140$. So I was thinking, I can get two more and decap them if I want to go that way later on.

I almost got a set myself, but noticed something when I did research.

You'll either want to decap them, or run an extended top hats. They're a twin-cone spray, but they're designed to be clocked 90*. Mounted like a stock B-series injector (clip top/forward), you'll have one cone spraying towards the top of the divider and one towards the bottom of the divider. They'll only spray towards each valve if the connector is on the side of the injector.

Notice how they injector clip is pointing sideways:

robus · « **Reply #88 on:** January 15, 2012, 12:20:01 PM »

Darn, I had seen those pics but hadn't noticed the 90-degree issue.

Those injectors are pretty small to start with, and I was half thinking about running extended hats already - guess it's a must now.
Thanks.

HiProfile · « **Reply #89 on:** January 19, 2012, 11:12:01 PM »

Soon I'm going to get some rough flow on 1.88mm, 2.54mm, and 2.68mm diameter orifice Denso injectors. I'm going to guess about 550cc, 650cc, and 700cc. They're from Mustang GT (purple), 5.3L Chevy flex motor (black), and QR25 motor (green). For the time being I'm keeping my CBR injectors intact.

Interesting fact - the black cores are what Five-O Motorsports uses to make their 1000cc+ injectors. They just press the plungers further into the armatures.

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Author Topic: Decapping WRX injectors (Read 238052 times)