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[N1 Andy]

So...I went to the dyno today, with LeeD, well respected member of the local tuning community.  It was going well basically until the car started making 275 or so hp, the car started going lean around 6600 rpm's.

So after 5 hours on the dyno, 2 walbro pumps, a brand new fuel filter, 2 regulators and I believe even trying massive duty cycle on the injectors, we gave up.  Very frustrating, I'm tearing my hair out over this.  

It can't be anything software wise, it has to be an electrical or mechanical issue.  
 
Possibilities!?
-Injectors are bad? don't see how, precision 880's with 2000miles on them.
-Power supply weak to pump? didnt think stock wiring was an issue until closer to 500whp
-Regulator? Rail psi was at 45psi at one point and we watched it climb as boost came on, seems to be doing its job fine.
-Resistor box issues? 99% positive I have the wiring right.
-Clogged hard fuel lines? doubt it, but maybe?!

Setup is as follows:
Walboro 255
Precision 880's
Generic FPR
Innovative GT61s
Shitbird Manifold
Chingagate 38mm
Perrin MBC

Could you guys throw out some suggestions that I could try? because I have NO idea anymore.

Thanks Dave, Spiker, Marcus and everyone else for the help, I appreciate the amount of determination to get this shit box making some power.  I'll get it, this is just a setback.

[bigdaddyvtec]

We changed out 2 regulators
new fuel pump
new fuel filter
raised base pressure to nog setting...


Checked fuel pressure during runs...
Checked batt voltage during runs

Made sure the injectors were 880s...


IM At wits fucking end.  NOOOOO idea what it is......   

Its DEFINATELY a fuel issue andy... Just what in the fuck it is is totaly beyond me....

[bigwig]

What ECU did you gents use?  I'd suggest checking the ECU to make sure your solder joints are still good.

I'd also look at something very mechanical.  Look at the actual turbo setup.  Make sure the turbo is good, the filter is still in one piece, nothing is clogged/jammed/ect.

[j.h.christ]

kinked line?

[bigdaddyvtec]

its going lean... not rich... Dont tink the turbo is the issue. Its known good.



And it actually seemed to get worse as time went on.

Thought about the ecu, or WB... But both the WB on the car and the sniffer on the dyno confirmed... Car does have a VAFC that id like to see taken out of the equation (As well as a MSD 6AL2-that I cant see having any effect)....

[bigdaddyvtec]

kinked line?

Nah....  Checked banjos and crush washers... Checked to make sure that the dampener had the right "perforated" crush washer too.... 

Its like it had plenty of fuel pressure.....    but even with nnog base and daddy duty cycle thrown at it it would go to the 13s at 600-6500 on only about 10 PSI...  Shitty too looked like it was going to make power

[sewell94]

i seen a car do this that had the injectors wired in the wrong order, them being mismatched didn't make a difference until we tried to make some power.

 I'd also verify injector voltage.

[DmC]

That Vafc has got to go..........Why would anyone even have one of those in this day&age it's not 2003. remove that and see what happens...I check the injector clips make sure their making really good snug contact with the injectors. Ive seen this cause what your talking about before. After those two things are sorted I'd do a fuel pump rewire.

  Other thing's I'd look at if I was infront of the car would be the alternator make sure it's putting out something between 13-14 volts while under load and that the hot wire is clean and tight, then check and make sure the battery terminals are clean and tight.  then go over the thermostat ground and other body grounds.

   maybe check the resistor box wiring with a mulitimeter make sure each injector is getting the right voltage ive seen things like this happen and the resistor box wiring is done wrong and you see 12v at the injectors past the resistor box.

[DmC]

i seen a car do this that had the injectors wired in the wrong order, them being mismatched didn't make a difference until we tried to make some power.

 I'd also verify injector voltage.

  :yes:

[Joseph Davis]

I'd have watched the fuel pressure right off, and pursued an ignition problem before mucking about replacing pumps.

[N1 Andy]

i seen a car do this that had the injectors wired in the wrong order, them being mismatched didn't make a difference until we tried to make some power.

 I'd also verify injector voltage.

Ill be doing that asap, like I said Im 99% positive I did it right, but ill check for the 1% stupidity.

That Vafc has got to go..........Why would anyone even have one of those in this day&age it's not 2003.

I should have taken it out first, the ONLY reason I had it was because on my old n/a setup I needed to raise vtec and I had no ostrich.

Im going to take the MSD out, the AFC, wire the pump to a relay with at least 12g wire, verify voltage @ injectors, remove the fuel damper on the end of the rail and get a new battery/alternator since we kept having to jump the car on the dyno.

[Joseph Davis]

Wait, you have a MSD?  If it's not a Digital-x box, it's the first thing I would have removed. 

[Zeniceguycrx]

what is your base fuel pressure?
does it maintain all the way through the pull?
if thats good

what map sensor?
if your at 271 or so on a stock map you might be at the end of it boost reading limits?

[DmC]

what is your base fuel pressure?
does it maintain all the way through the pull?
if thats good

what map sensor?
if your at 271 or so on a stock map you might be at the end of it boost reading limits?

That wouldn't make it stop making power. You just tune the last column for what ever boost your running. LOL I tuned some guys car at 15psi one time with the stock map sensor. It's not something I'd recommend doing but it's not the end of the world either.

And if you have to jump start the car on the dyno it probably should have come off the dyno until that was fixed. you can't tune efi with no E.

[Zeniceguycrx]

true for the map

but fuel at high rpm/boost could be his issue

[bigdaddyvtec]

it was running out of fuel at 6k....


JD:

I mentioned aboive it had the 6al in it...  yes it needs to go. as does the VAFC. Rail pressure was checked from the get go when the issue arose. ... stock pump wiring shouldnt be an issue at 300 whpzzzzzz...... or 400 for that matter...   x3 on the injector order....   


Check it... 
but the batt voltage was showing good in crome... IDK an alternator and checking  your wiring to from it (Batt is in the rear of the car) should be looked at too.

[Joseph Davis]

JD:

I mentioned aboive it had the 6al in it... 

I ignore most everything you post in technical threads...

stock pump wiring shouldnt be an issue at 300 whpzzzzzz...... or 400 for that matter... 

... because you say a lot of stupid shit.

[bigdaddyvtec]

So youre saying stock wiring isnt enough for 400?  SRSLY???  And IM the one posting stupid shit???  In a tech thread.... Maybe you need a nap or something, or to ewake the fuck up my nig, but you surely dont need a fucking rewire for 400 WHP weith the 255 HP.




You just fell down the knowlegabilities pole a couple branches....  I half eagerly await your explanation why as Ive seen more than more than a few in my brief time in the Honda game....  The fact that you would spew such rigamarol puzzles me... Unless its to appear a bit brighter than a black light...  My question is why? I mean, Its just my dimb ass youre talking about right???


Wheres the fucking dunce cap smiley.


:JD:  isnt working   lol

[N1 Andy]

From what I've seen, upgraded wiring is NOT needed until 400+.  That is only from what i've seen though. 

The only thing that bothers me is the fact that I relocated the battery and did a wire tuck and the possiblilities of some wiring getting nigged out and improper sized is great.  I think I will run new -8 from pump output to rail with 2 banjo's on it, and run a relay and 10guage wire to the pump directly from the battery just to eliminate all possiblities for problems, and get the injectors flow tested.IFI get Dave in my car again it needs to be perfect.  I'll drive to Bellingham if he wants me to and pay him again obviously.

[N1 Andy]

and go over the injector voltage and firing order.

[Joseph Davis]

So youre saying stock wiring isnt enough for 400?  SRSLY??? 

Yeah, SRSLY.  I've had problems with two Walbro 255 cars in the 350 whp range, fuel pressure starts falling off.  I've been through a few 400-450 whp setups that upgrading the wiring after the tune drove the tune rich towards peak boost.

Oh, yeah.  You're fat.

From what I've seen, upgraded wiring is NOT needed until 400+.  That is only from what i've seen though. 

You are running an MSD analog box, you haven't seen much.

Go fix your car, and take your fat male girlfriend with you.  You're cluttering up my EM forum with your simple and obvious ignition problem while claiming to have seen it all and know the ropes.

[sewell94]

Any chance its not actually getting more pulse, ie its a vtec car still on the low cam map, or similar situation.

[DmC]

Battery voltage in Crome isn't acurate.   I always check it with a multimeter at pins d1 and d22.   It's probably just the vafc fucking up your lives.

 If it's an ignition problem the wideband will show lean during ignition break up.

true for the map

but fuel at high rpm/boost could be his issue

Yeah it may be fuel but he's got bigger injectors then he needs and walbro 255. So something has been africanized.

 

[BangBusMaster]

Things that it is not:

Voltage
Ignition
AFC

[88dx]

We changed out 2 regulators
new fuel pump
new fuel filter
raised base pressure to nog setting...


Checked fuel pressure during runs...
Checked batt voltage during runs

Made sure the injectors were 880s...


IM At wits fucking end.  NOOOOO idea what it is......   

Its DEFINATELY a fuel issue andy... Just what in the fuck it is is totaly beyond me....

SO you guys can see the fuel pressure hold in boost? I had this happen to me on a buddys car and the only thing I could think of was the injectors

[N1 Andy]

You are running an MSD analog box, you haven't seen much.

Go fix your car, and take your fat male girlfriend with you.  You're cluttering up my EM forum with your simple and obvious ignition problem while claiming to have seen it all and know the ropes.

why are you being a fag? I've seen plenty of shit, just haven't done much turboing. 

You quoted me saying "from what ive seen" I never claimed to know it all. 

I DON'T see how the MSD could cause a lean condition however, I will be taking it out, but I doubt the MSD is the reason I don't have enough fuel.

AFC was NOT correcting anything, we watched it. 

I'll stop "clogging" your EM forum, I know what I need to do, thanks guys for the input.

[88dx]

You are running an MSD analog box, you haven't seen much.

Go fix your car, and take your fat male girlfriend with you.  You're cluttering up my EM forum with your simple and obvious ignition problem while claiming to have seen it all and know the ropes.

why are you being a fag? I've seen plenty of shit, just haven't done much turboing. 

You quoted me saying "from what ive seen" I never claimed to know it all. 

I DON'T see how the MSD could cause a lean condition however, I will be taking it out, but I doubt the MSD is the reason I don't have enough fuel.

AFC was NOT correcting anything, we watched it. 

I'll stop "clogging" your EM forum, I know what I need to do, thanks guys for the input.

U cant let baldy upset you that eazy, tell him to fuck off  :yes:

[DmC]

You are running an MSD analog box, you haven't seen much.

Go fix your car, and take your fat male girlfriend with you.  You're cluttering up my EM forum with your simple and obvious ignition problem while claiming to have seen it all and know the ropes.

why are you being a fag? I've seen plenty of shit, just haven't done much turboing. 

You quoted me saying "from what ive seen" I never claimed to know it all. 

I DON'T see how the MSD could cause a lean condition however, I will be taking it out, but I doubt the MSD is the reason I don't have enough fuel.

AFC was NOT correcting anything, we watched it. 

I'll stop "clogging" your EM forum, I know what I need to do, thanks guys for the input.

JD is getting snippy with you becuase he's giving you advice from the position of only wanting to help you. Then you are coming back acting like you already know everything and can handle sorting it out yourself. You seem to be taking his suggestions like theyre insults maybe he is a little rough sometimes with the way he comes acrossed but he's only trying to help you out.
        Josephs done a few thousand cars. Ive done around a hundred.
Weve both got a lot of experiance with these types of problems. I know he wants nothing more then for your next post to be a ripper vid with the problem solved.
          Don't take small shots at you and spiker personally it's all in good fun and well intentioned.
 
   Now for me to rant a little bit lose the additude when youve got a problem that you don't have a handle on it's not the time to be defensive it's time to clear your head of bullshit and everything you think you know for sure and just give the whole situation a fresh look; Every time I get stuck on something I have to force myself to do this. Sometimes the problem ends up being the one thing you won't admit to yourself that it is, In my experiances Ive never seen a car come out successful when the owner gets defensive and starts denying things.

   Here is why Joseph thinks it's probably ignition. When an igniton is having high rpm missfires It shows up on the wideband as lean.  Get new plugs try gaping them tighter maybe even pop the cap off and check your rotor button and such. I wouldn't be half shocked if the set screw has backed out and the button is in there loose and bouncing around causing missfire on clinders 1 and 4.
        this shit gets complicated but guess what it looks easy when you figure it out.  If the vfc is wired in and turned on it's affecting something.
   youve already said you'd take off the 6a box so I'll leave you alone on that but's it could be screwwing with your actuall timing. 
   

[88dx]

You are running an MSD analog box, you haven't seen much.

Go fix your car, and take your fat male girlfriend with you.  You're cluttering up my EM forum with your simple and obvious ignition problem while claiming to have seen it all and know the ropes.

why are you being a fag? I've seen plenty of shit, just haven't done much turboing. 

You quoted me saying "from what ive seen" I never claimed to know it all. 

I DON'T see how the MSD could cause a lean condition however, I will be taking it out, but I doubt the MSD is the reason I don't have enough fuel.

AFC was NOT correcting anything, we watched it. 

I'll stop "clogging" your EM forum, I know what I need to do, thanks guys for the input.

JD is getting snippy with you becuase he's giving you advice from the position of only wanting to help you. Then you are coming back acting like you already know everything and can handle sorting it out yourself. You seem to be taking his suggestions like theyre insults maybe he is a little rough sometimes with the way he comes acrossed but he's only trying to help you out.
        Josephs done a few thousand cars. Ive done around a hundred.
Weve both got a lot of experiance with these types of problems. I know he wants nothing more then for your next post to be a ripper vid with the problem solved.
          Don't take small shots at you and spiker personally it's all in good fun and well intentioned.
 
   Now for me to rant a little bit lose the additude when youve got a problem that you don't have a handle on it's not the time to be defensive it's time to clear your head of bullshit and everything you think you know for sure and just give the whole situation a fresh look; Every time I get stuck on something I have to force myself to do this. Sometimes the problem ends up being the one thing you won't admit to yourself that it is, In my experiances Ive never seen a car come out successful when the owner gets defensive and starts denying things.

   Here is why Joseph thinks it's probably ignition. When an igniton is having high rpm missfires It shows up on the wideband as lean.  Get new plugs try gaping them tighter maybe even pop the cap off and check your rotor button and such. I wouldn't be half shocked if the set screw has backed out and the button is in there loose and bouncing around causing missfire on clinders 1 and 4.
        this shit gets complicated but guess what it looks easy when you figure it out.  If the vfc is wired in and turned on it's affecting something.
   youve already said you'd take off the 6a box so I'll leave you alone on that but's it could be screwwing with your actuall timing. 
   

Wow ur fucking retarded

[DmC]

Whatever if thats what you think it's what you think. Ive had enough success tuning cars and sorting out problems like this guys over the past few years that I'll take my own advice If some trys to say I don't know what I'm talking about they can kiss my ass.
    Taking adice from someone is one thing. Theirs always someone who knows more it's cool to hear some new ideas.  LOL but to be called a retard Lick my Balllllllzzzzzzzz